Banned

Personally I don't have any issue with the poppy not being worn on a football kit.
I just don't see it as a sign of respect - it's just a poppy on a football kit. Football could do so much more in this situation than putting a poppy on the shirt.
I'm not against it being on the kit - I just don't see it as being important.
The stadium could be emblazoned with poppies for example and it would have just as much effect if not more. The screens could show massive poppies etc Have the players carry out poppy wreaths before kickoff - that's much more involved than just pulling a shirt over your head that has a poppy stitched into it.
Of course FIFA may not allow any of that either........

 

"I just don't see it as a sign of respect - it's just a poppy on a football kit."

Wow. What a catastrophic misunderstanding of what poppies mean - and it's way out of step with public opinion. If it's not a mark of respect what is it there for? Decoration?

If we agree that a poppy isn't a political statement - because it's not - how is it different from wearing a black armband as a mark of respect?

 

Or having things promoting extortion like pay day loans and the like. i find that offensive encouraging vulnerable people to get into debt with these unscrupulous firms. We are not the only country to remember their war dead and people are proud to wear their medals and wear a poppy once a year....I will wear my medals with pride and will attend the service on remembrance Sunday ....Be Proud to wear a poppy and what it represents as we could all be speaking German now if those brave men and women never gave their lives so we can live ours...

 

Kiff - I understand what the poppy is all about - I just don't see that putting on a football kit makes any difference - whether it's out of step with public opinion or not. I have my opinion and it's as valid as anyone else's.

 

It is but to have an organisation demanding that it's not worn is having no choice

 

Fair point - I have no issue with it being worn either - but my point of view is that to ME I don't particularly associate a poppy that is stitched into a football shirt as a mark of respect any more than a kit manufacturer or sponsor being on a shirt - maybe because it has taken no effort whatsoever from the wearer of the shirt.
At least when you pin a poppy to your jacket, you've actually gone and made an effort by putting some money in a box and attaching it. I dunno, it just seems a bit of a lazy option. I'd rather them do something more involved.

Have the players specifically asked to wear them or is it that the FA think it would be good PR to have them on the kit ?

 

I cannot understand how anyone can equate a poppy with a manufacturer's logo. You seem to be making the distinction re the poppies we all wear on the basis that we've gone to the trouble of pinning it on ourselves. I mean, really? The 'lazy option' is because players can't pin anything on their jerseys. It's a necessary option. Do you actually think that any of the players would object? I can't imagine any would. Most would expect it, and rightly so.

You didn't answer the point about a black arm band showing respect. How is that any different?

You have the right an opinion, of course. We all do. Just as I have the right to say your posts reflect a complete lack of understanding as to what the poppy represents - in fact you seem rather dismissive if its meaning by saying it 'doesn't make a difference' - and your arguments lack logic and are deeply flawed.

 

You have your opinion Stereo because you are free to have an opinion, you are free to choose what you believe, banning choice IS banning opinion.

FIFA want to oppress my rite to choose, they want to ban my opinion whatever it may be and in doing so they are stamping on my rite to free expression.

In banning choice they are actively supporting one opinion over another. In this case their action will support those who dont want to wear a poppy and who wouldn't wear on anyway. Those who want to wear one will be denied that choice so FIFA will be taking a side and making a political stand because their action favours one side over another.

FIFA say that the poppy is a political symbol so surely banning it is in itelsf a political act. FIFA therefor, have to be bound by the same logic and therefor their own branding, name and flag, which represents FIFA, become political emblems and subsequently, should be banned from football grounds hosting a FIFA sanctioned event.

Isn't every nations flag a political emblem anyway? will FIFA subvert our choice to wear our flag on our shirts? our hearts on our sleeve?

Why are we allowing an unqulified, politically corrupt bunch of pen pushers to say whats right or wrong or are we actually leaving the decision up to a brown envelope?

 

So you are saying that because I don't see things your way that I lack logic and am deeply flawed ??? Talk about arrogance !!!

You can't seem to grasp the fact that whether they wear a poppy on their shirt doesn't make an ounce of difference to how I respect or remember those who fought during the war. It's a symbol. The players will wear poppies on their way to the stadium and after the match - what's the big deal about taking it off for 90 mins ???

Will you think any less of the war dead because there's no poppy on an England shirt ? Will you forget to remember them ? I know I won't. My loss with a grandfather who lost his life fighting is personal to me - I know how I feel with or without the poppy on a football shirt.... it's so insignificant.

I've had enough tragedy in my life to know all that matters is life - everything else is secondary.

 

No, Stereo. I am saying that your argument lacks logic because it does. I'm saying that your argument is deeply flawed because it is. Nothing to do with whether you agree with me or not. I couldn't care less about that.

Case in point - you say the players wearing the poppy doesn't make a difference to the way you feel. It may make a difference to the way many others feel. Furthermore, and more importantly, they would be wearing a poppy as a personal recognition of the sacrifice made by people over generations. The poppy is personal to that person, even though it may affect how others feel when they see it. People wear poppies, not to affect others but as a mark of personal respect. I wear a poppy because when I see it I remember. You seem to think it's some sort of mass virtue signal.

That's why I think you view of this issue appears to be skewed. Dismissing the wearing of poppies by a national team in the way you have - with a dismissive wave of the hand as if it doesn't really matter - shows a gross miscalculation of the public mood and a misunderstanding of what it means to people. The wearing of the poppy is entrenched deep in the national psyche even if it doesn't matter to you.

 

But Kiff - I don't intend to speak for the whole country - only myself. It doesn't matter to ME. I have no problem if they want to wear the poppy - great - all I'm trying to say is that I don't need it to make me understand or remember the significance. As for a gross miscalculation of public mood - I don't speak for them - I'm not trying to.

Why can't you just accept that I have my opinion - which is right for me ? I'm not calling you out for having a standpoint more aligned to the masses am I ?
I'm not trying to convert you to my way of thinking, I'm only offering an alternate opinion on the situation. Would you prefer I just say "OK - sorry for having the audacity to feel differently about this than most. I'll adjust my thinking immediately." I know you're not looking for that, but it certainly comes across that way.
I'm not here to be judged, I want to see other opinions, whether I agree with them or not.

FIFA should keep their noses out anyway

 

I accept persons opinions and views. I myself think it is a shameful act by a corrupt organisation and rightly or wrongly would defy it. If the SFA and FA do concede and don't wear poppies, i just hope they have poppies everywhere in the ground on screens, being thrown onto the outside of the pitch by fans.


Good on you FAW. Now that is something i haven't said much in the past.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/wales-ready-face-fifa-sanctions-12119729#ICID=FB-Wales-main

 

Quite right TLF.

Stereo. I'm not asking you to change your opinion, or try to convince you to change it. I'm just saying that I think you're wrong and have set out clearly why I think you're wrong. Some will agree with your view, some with mine. All part of being on a forum.

 

First of all there has never been a problem before. Fifa has a new General Secretary Fatma Samoura who has stated that Africa and more recently Syria have wars and if FIFA let us have armbands they will all want one. Well Fatma firstly they are internal conflicts, the poppy represents the dead of two world wars not only British but people from all over the world. Americans gave their lives the French resistance fought against the odds the polish joined the RAF to help to name but a few. I read today that if a team complains we will be docked points. Which brings me to Serbia who suffered in the war at the hands of the Nazis who killed 500,000 Serbs in consentration camps. Chris Coleman and the Welsh squad can be seen laying wreaths at the graves of soldiers from the Royal Welsh Fusiliers who lost 1200 men in the conflict. Yes Fatma the very same regiment that saved a whole town of Muslims from being slaughtered in the 1995 war in Bosnia. The Serbs attacked the town and there were 300 soldiers from the Royal Welsh who were on a peace keeping mission they helped defend the town of Gorazde with 45.000 Muslim inhabitants and saved it. The Royal Welsh were awarded the highest number of medals since the war in Korea The Serbs then turned their attention to Srebrenica where they killed 7000 boys and old men.So Lets wear the poppy armbands and they can stick the three points.

 

It is a mark of respect and a peace symbol that happens for a short period once a year and it gives great comfort and pride to those who have lost or has known people who has lost someone in the wars so we live the life we live today. It is in no way political and no way offensive as many other countries have their own form of remembrance.
Yesterday Andy Murry wore a poppy during his match in France and nobody objected and why was that because there was nothing offensive in it.... We are a nation that wants to remember the sacrifices of our war dead at one time of the year that is not much to ask.....I hope England and Scotland wear their poppies on their shirts with pride and show FIFA the two fingers what they can do with their ban....

 

Why would the French Object? Its not just our war dead! the last time i looked the Nazis were murdering Jews, Poles, Serbs, French, Russians, Americans, Africans,Dutch, Belgians and anyone else who got in their way.

 

You sound like you were a Welchman ?

 

Well done the FA, i just hope that the SFA and FAW follow suit.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...ayers-will-wear-remembrance-day-a7393591.html

 

Sorry Matt did I write "Welsh" I was thinking pre 1920.

 

You know your regimental history then