Off Topic Political Debate

please log in to view this image

 

Not really political I suppose - but can anyone tell me why the BBC seem to be taking the viewpoint that lagging behind in house price rises is such a 'bad thing'?

Or is it only bad for private landlords?


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-37691171

 

The Canadian/EU trade deal tonight hangs by a thread.

For the deal to pass, Belgium's federal, regional and community bodies (seven in all) must give their approval.

Wallonia, a staunchly socialist region of 3.6 million people, has led objections to the deal, demanding stronger safeguards on labour, environmental and consumer standards.

But at talks with Prime Minister Mr Martin on Monday, it emerged that two other bodies, Brussels and that of the French-speaking community, also opposed Ceta.

This means that a tiny number of people in comparison with the population of the entire EU are holding out against the will of the great majority. They have been given the facts and decided that the deal is not for them, and under their constitution can block it. Is this democracy? Should they have the ability to block the will of the majority?

How different to the UK where the government is not giving anyone details of what they want to do regarding the EU, yet claim they have a mandate to do what they want. Sad that Scotland or N. Ireland do not have a similar veto, but then they are only a small part of the UK, and cannot be heard in the same way as Belgians. Even leaders of the devolved countries attend a meeting with the PM and leave saying they have no more idea of the plans than when they went in. Is this what our democracy is about these days?

The government should tell the nation what they will be trying to do and not keep it secret in case it tuns out to be unpopular. Maybe they have no real idea just what they will do, so continue to hide behind language that in itself is meaningless.

 

What do you mean by the 'will of the great majority' Frenchie ? Have the people in Europe ever been asked about CETA or TTIP - I suspect that the majority are against and that, in fact, the Belgians are the only ones actually listening.

 

My thoughts too - and aren't they only exercising their rights as set out in their constitution? Something people here can't do as the UK doesn't even have one.

 

Bloody Nora....

 

No the people have not been asked directly apart from the Belgians, but the system of democracy that operates allows people who are interested to place their faith in politicians at an election, and remove them at the next one if they are not happy with what they do. As CETA has been seven years in the making it can hardly be described as something that has suddenly jumped out of the bushes that people could not find out about. As the politicians at national and EU level have approved the deal, it can be said that it is with the will of the electors. There will always be those who disapprove of government decisions, and it is up to them to argue their case either on the streets, media or parliament. The Welsh First Minister said yesterday that many of those in his country who voted to get out of the EU had changed their views now that they can see how they were misled, and if the vote was held again there would be a different result. This is a guess on his part, in the same way it can only be a guess what would happen if every voter was asked about CETA. It cannot be a practical system of government to have to keep asking people what they think, especially when something like the proposed deal is so complex.

 

Frenchie, the whole thing of TTIP and CETA was whipped through behind closed doors. CETA has only come to the surface because TTIP has collapsed but they are the same thing - ie. TTIP through the back door. A surrendering of the democratic rights of elected governments to act on behalf of their electorate. It allows corporations to take national governments to court over loss of earnings. Imagine that your elected government bans a product on grounds of safety or environmental concerns, or even makes the warning pictures on cigarette packets more alarming, then it allows the corporation concerned to sue your country in a court which, apparently, has no fixed location. Just as Mexico has been sued (by almost invisible courts) because of the clarity of some of their anti tobacco posters. If pushed through this would be the last nail in the coffin of the democratic sovereignty of nations, and the latest phase of the creeping corporate dictatorship over our World. What Belgium is doing is setting an example for others to follow - we can take our Europe back from the bureaucrats and the lobbyists.

 

What ever the rights and wrongs of CETA, it was common knowledge for years that this deal was in the making. There are many things in it that I don't like, but to say it was whipped through after seven years of talks is stretching things a bit. All 28 governments have had a chance to study it over the years and could have killed it off long before now if they had wanted to. As each national government could be losing sovereignty, it seems strange that not one appears worried. The main reason that Wallonia objects to it is that they feel that some of their agricultural products will be priced out of the market.

 

An interesting choice for the voters in Richmond, Surrey. Their MP has resigned his seat over the Heathrow decision announced today. The people voted heavily in favour of remaining in the EU, while the MP didn't. The Liberals are the only serious threat to win the seat, and the Tories say they will not contest the seat. The MP says it will be a referendum on Heathrow, while the Liberals are looking at his record on ignoring people who wanted to stay in the EU. This is democracy in action.

 

Yes, make it difficult for the "venal". Vain, gun-wielding twats should be allowed. The swooping shot of him sitting in Rodinesque pose under a bus shelter is sublime.
And pride is not an "unpleasant" characteristic. Having no concept of how that jacket makes him look, is.

 

An amendment has been made to the CETA deal that the people in Wallonia are happy with, and they have withdrawn their objection. This amendment now has to go back to all the National governments for approval. When the UK government was asked why they hadn't brought it to the commons for discussion, the reply was simply there wasn't time. Still trying to work out will it be possible for the UK to do a tariff free deal with Canada if it leaves the EU without an agreement.

 

The UK. is not free to negotiate independent deals until it has formally left the EU. after the negotiations of Article 50. CETA is nothing more than TTIP in disguise - with one signature the following would take place:
1. Investors and corporations would be able to sue democratically elected governments for acting on behalf of their electorate.
2. Concerns will be invited to help with forming new laws.
3. Large concerns have had an undue influence over the negotiations - they have been present at 92% of all negotiations so far (which MEP's haven't been).
4. The negotiations have taken place in secret behind closed doors - MEP's have not been allowed to take notes on any of the fine details of some documents, and have not had access to others.
5. Environmental and safety standards will be lowered.
6. Workers rights are in danger.
7. EU. countries will come under even more pressure to allow fracking and gene manipulated products.
8. Transatlantic concerns will gain even more advantages on the markets.
9. CETA and TTIP will make it harder to preserve things like health systems etc. in public hands.
10. In order to accomodate this extra trans atlantic trade (which the environment doesn't need) port facilities, rivers and harbours will have to be expanded and deepened, at great environmental cost.

There is no evidence that the people of Wallonia are happy with the deal - their government has simply caved in to the pressure from the rest of the EU. , and possibly gained a few backhanders in the process - but democracy has lost, with a big L.

 

From what I have read, briefly it must be said, the amendment does include something about special courts no longer being in the agreement, something that was always a sticking point for them oop north. Without the courts large corporations would not be able to take on national governments.
I think that the region have made their point, and gained things that they wanted. Blackmail on their part? There is no evidence either that the people of Wallonia were ever unhappy with the deal, just their regional government, although I suspect that people do like to see their rulers given a black eye from time to time.
Why should this have an effect on environmental standards? That is for the EU to decide. One of the fears I have over the UK leaving and setting their own standards.
It seems that the USA is unlikely to get the TTIP deal through, so maybe it is time to separate the two deals rather than try to lump them together.

 

Where's Fraser when you need him?

We're all doomed....doomed I tell you!

 

please log in to view this image

 

The saga continues - FBI reportedly re-opening the Clinton email server case. I wonder if the hand of Trump is behind that decision?

http://uk.businessinsider.com/fbi-r...llary-private-e-mail-server-2016-10?r=US&IR=T

 

The latest opinion polls have come out here in France today, and they show that Hollande has the lowest approval rating ever. Even his own socialist party members disapprove of his record. Despite the economy showing similar growth to that of the UK, which he says will continue, no one believes him anymore. All of the politicians are trying to look as if they are credible alternatives, but Sarkozy is not looking like a decent alternative. and is not wanted as a returning President. The most popular at present is Alain Juppé who is the mayor of Bordeaux, and is broadly a man of the centre. If he is elected it is not good news for the UK as he is very much more inclined to make life difficult. He has said that if elected he will give the UK the two years notice that is required to remove the border from France. The good news is that Brexit has shown to the population here that this would not be a good road for France to go down, and that Le Pen has lost support by trying to suggest that this country should follow a similar path.
The goings on here are important to the future of the UK. The whole negotiating deals that the UK could try to start next year could change part way through if the person elected has a different view to the current dead duck.

 

Says it all. God forbid this sort of layabout should put any spanner in the works of potential tax cuts.

 

Is this the world's best hope?
Hilary is elected - end of Trump, she is impeached - end of her?
This is the sort of 'democracy' that should see Iraq and Libya invading the United States.