The way he drifted across the course at Goodwood suggests there may have been a problem in the race itself. Anyway he was a very good horse who did me a couple of favours and inspired some lively debate. Suspect he will flop at stud though.
Coolmore are a joke. Like someone as said why pay the Ascot fees if the horse is injured? IMO Canford Cliffs never injured himself chasing Frankel home. He was beaten fair and square by a better horse I don't see why Coolmore and the clown that is Richard Hannon cannot accept that. It just tarnishes the great efforts of a talented young colt to preserve whats left of a reputation of this superhorse that was built up by the Hannon propaganda machine. Don't get Me wrong Canford Cliffs was a good horse but just no Frankel. I wish him the best in his retirement and I hope Frankel goes on unbeaten. The irony of this all is its the great Coolmore stallion Galileo that created this miling monster!
The owners of the arab stallion in the avatar came round for dinner tonight and we closed the purchase of him so I'm a bit light headed at present. He is now ours. I have kept out of this discussion because I feel I'm the only person on this forum who has reservations about Frankel. For me his wins over a mile as a 3yo have question marks over them. In terms of times, relative to standard his performances have been no better than Canford Cliffs' performance when beating Goldikova at Ascot. In his previous race he struggled to beat Zoffany. The fact that he took up the running early is no excuse (he did the same against Canford Cliffs) and I am of the impression that the race exposed his limitations. The difference was there was a slow early pace in the latter race. I still have reservations about him over a mile in a truly run race. He is faster than Canford Cliffs, and probably faster than anything which means that, with a slow early pace, nothing can keep with him when he goes. Lets see what he has left when the pace is on from the start.
I disagree Ron. I think the faster they go the more they play into Frankel's favour. For example in the 2000 Guineas not one horse could match his cruising speed and most were off the Bridle by the 5 furlong marker and there was some good horses in that field, He went off like a plane and he did the same at Ascot in the St James Palace Stakes taking off just before the corner into the stretch, Richard Hughes as since said that his horse in the race Dubawi Gold could not have gone faster to keep up with Frankel. Its debateable weather Frankel tired in the last two furlongs of that race as a tired horse usually shortens its stride. This is some function of reduced muscle efficiency, though it is also linked to respiration: like many four-legged mammals, it takes exactly one breath per stride. So shorter strides, or more strides per second, provide more oxygen. As Frankel galloped up the straight, his average stride-length in each of the last two furlongs was constant and his stride frequency was actually decreasing. This isn’t the usual pattern with tired horses, but it may be some evidence that he was doing exactly what his jockey said he was doing, Resisting the instruction to keep going – idling, in other words In My opinion aswell Canford Cliffs struggled to keep up with Frankel and to Me Frankel looked to be dawdling in front which is a frightening prospect because the way he finished the race poses to things 1. They weren't going fast enough for him and 2. He could go further. Frankel as needed a pacemaker in a couple of his races to try and set a true pace but even they have struggled to set a decent gallop. I think the only horse in the world at the moment that as a similar type of cruising speed is So You Think. Even still off a slow pace Frankel as showed he can annihilate a field look at his Royal Lodge Win as a 2 year old were they crawled the first half mile and then he took off in the straight. Slow pace, Fast pace, Any type of ground Frankel as delivered the goods and I dont think there is a better horse in the world at the moment.
I do believe that Frankel should be stepped up in trip to 10 Furlongs though on breeding alone is pedigree suggest he will stay the trip, And on his performances to date I believe there is enough in the locker to stay and win a G1 over 10 furlongs. I'd love to see him take So You Think on over 10 Furlongs. It'd be a tough race for Frankel but one to savour!
The hype is always going to be there around a horse like Frankel, The sport needs these types of horses. Frankel from winning the Royal Lodge as had his doubters wanting him to fail at every attempt and he keeps producing the goods. What do you want him to do? Win a Mile handicap giving 90 stone all round, breaking a track record and winning by 15L?? Hes just beaten Canford Cliffs for goodness sake. The rubbish that Coolmore have come out with saying he injured himself chasing Frankel home is an attempt to try and keep some of Canford Cliffs reputation intact instead of just accepting the fact Frankel punished there horse. I believe the hype as I don't believe there is an horse in the world capable of mixing it with him over a mile...
Interesting read Istabraq but don't get carried away by my reservation. I have not knocked Frankel at any time but I do have one reservation which I have explained. Only time will tell and hopefully my reservation will be removed. The hype for Frankel is so high that no-one will even consider that it is possible Canford Cliffs had a problem in the race. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't but I doubt anyone would disagree that Canford Cliffs didn't perform to his best in that race. A superstar should not be struggling to hold off Zoffany, however the race is run. Nevertheless he is very exciting and I hope the bubble doesn't burst.
Congrats on the purchase Ron! Are you standing him yourself? Will he cover in hand or run loose with the mates?
Ron - I know the Zoffany run did not look great but I think any horse can be made to look a lot worse that it is with a bad ride - which is what he had that day. It is not like me to stand up for the Coolmore spin machine but there did appear to be something amiss with Canford Cliffs at Goodwood as he drifted across the course. Having said that I don't think anything would have beaten Frankel that day and I think he deserves all the praise he is receiving.
Actually, I was the first one on this forum to praise him with a capital "WOW" so I hope no-one is misunderstanding me here.
Having won the Champion of Normandie for the second year running Princess, our prime target at the moment is Champion of France in September. He has also done a bit of free schooling lately at 1.50m so he could have multi discipline on his CV if we cared to compete him. He's only 7 years old so we have plenty of time with him.
His 2000 Guineas performance was exceptional in terms of time. He ran the first 5f faster than the Group 3 5f sprint on the same day, and that was without the benefit of the stands to deflect the worst of the wind. He then kept on for a further 3f to win in convincing and impressive fashion. To be able to run a time that impressive, in conditions like that, whilst making all his own running was exceptional. The bare time wasn't particularly fast but in comparison it was. Dave Edwards of Topspeed wrote an excellent article in the Weekender the week after which highlihted just what a sensation it was. I have no doubt that he is well capable of a very fast time, given the right conditions. Edit: Congratulations on your purchase. I'm not an Arab man but he looks very nice indeed.
Neither were we until he was sent to us for my daughter to produce. He is such a lovely, happy character, we had to buy him for ourselves.
I've kepyt oput of this thread bexcause I donlt want to be accused of being a coolmoore fan with a chip on my shoulder. Howeber, I have to say that if they have announced that the horse i was injured then I'd believe it - in much the same way as pretty much any other stable. I donlt know why he was entered at Ascot and neither does anyone else - it could be that they didn't know the extent of the damage. Anyway, we shouldn't let any of this affect the remembrance of a wondeful miler who was an absolute pleasure to watch race. I quite like ron's comments about Frankel as it's always good to see people expressing reservations about these things because it makes you watch again - Sadly, with the retirment of Canford Cliffs, i doubt that he will ever see his questions answered......
What little evidence there is available would suggest that the injury excuse being trotted out for Canford Cliffs is just excuses. At Goodwood the horse was soundly beaten and hung sideways just like he had done at Newbury as a three-year-old. If he was injured at Newbury, he did remarkably well to go and win five Group 1 races afterwards. My suspicion is that he hung away because he was a tired horse, having been run off his feet by Frankel continually picking up the pace. I am no veterinarian but if the injury is career ending the horse certainly did not exhibit any signs of sustaining an injury during the race. I would accept that Canford Cliffs ran well below form in the Sussex Stakes as the proximity of Rio De La Plata indicates as much; however, he would not have beaten Frankel had he stayed on a straight line.
The Newmarket rumour mill is suggesting this morning that there is nothing wrong with CC at all. The allegation is that he is totally sound but that Coolmore have decided that they cannot risk another loss with him as it will make him too difficult to "sell" to mare owners.
PN......I said that from the moment the supposed injury occurred, what they should have done was avoid Frankel and try and win the BC mile against Goldikova, that would have got his reputation back on track before stud
Very bewildering how a defeat to a horse like Frankel can be considered so catastrophic by owners. It's hardly a disgrace to finish second to him!
