I'm not arguing it for the reasons I've stated above but those 50+ out voters could argue that unlike 18 year olds they have earned the right to their view on the country after actually living and working and paying taxes during eu membership as well as paying for those 18 year olds to grow up and be educated without any significant return to the country as of yet... They also don't believe they've benefitted ...hence the out vote..they may be wrong but that's different than deliberately and knowingly gaining an advantage of the EU then removing that advantage from the next generation out of some sort of spite?
Where's the evidence for this, apart from in the ****-stirring media? It goes against my experience, and where would be the logic in it anyway? Over 50's aren't dead yet, or ready to be, we still have to live with the consequences of the vote, and if things go tits up they do so for us as much as for anyone else. The idea that an entire generation has reaped the benefits of EU membership and has created some sort of protected wealth for itself that it's keeping under the mattress whilst deliberately pulling the rug from under its descendants is laughable and insulting. Those of us who believed in the EU before would continue to do so now. Imo, the older people who voted leave were mostly those who never wanted in in the first place and this was their first opportunity to get their way. I'm one of those people who Frank hates - a bitter Remainer who continues to whine after the event - and I'll probably do so for the rest of my life. It was a disastrous decision, as far as I'm concerned - the repercussions of which will only become evident in the future -but to lay the blame on one demographic group, with widely varied backgrounds, outlook and attitudes and accuse it of selfishly betraying the future is way too simplistic.
I agree with that, but from the people outside of the UK I've talked to we are a laughing stock already. An American woman came up to me in Paris and said she was surprised we voted out and that the average British voter must be even thicker than the average American one, which stung a bit, because it was accurate.
Lol..I wasn't clear enough me thinks Saint...I don't hate anybody and I still believe those out voters were wrong and we'll all pay for it until we change some very significant ways our country produces goods, uses resources etc etc..(something i think is needed anyway because i foresee the EU in its current guise as fatally flawed and will collapse within a generation) I don't think any of the current crop of politicians are good enough to make silk out of a pigs ear. ie if it's going to be painful at least seize the opportunity to change our country for the better in the long term rather than trying the same old methods only on our own... So I don't mind people disliking the result and expecting the worse I just don't like the idea of moving the goal posts until we get the result we want...I think doing that will cause even more damage to our society...and as I say I don't think we will ever get the clear result we would now need for it to be accepted. And I agree it should never have been put to the electorate as a single issue to vote on. At best the Tories should have sorted it out "in party" and if they became unified behind "out" then present a clear path of exit in a manifesto to the electorate in a general election. Until then we should have maintained the status quo.. But we are where we are so instead of wistfully asking what if we should be putting immense pressure on politicians both out and remain to come up with the best exit plan... we can show our evaluation of their efforts at the next GE.
Just looked it up and I thought the age polls were part of the official count of votes, didn't know they were only predictions based on Lord Ashcroft's research. Apologies to all the OAPs I offended
I do think this is a possibility however...but it relies on the Labour party getting it's act together: If May triggers in say, January to March 2017 it's two years from then to completion..that's early 2019, only one year from a GE. If and it's a big IF the Labour party sorts itself out they could make the GE about abandoning the exit effort. The various Nationalist parties would fall into step and depending on how useless the Govt has been in negotiations during that time the Tories would be forced to present a unified Brexit front in a manifesto..something I think would be impossible. While the EU is saying once triggered it's 2 years and that's it, I guranteed you they'd fudge it to wait until after the GE if it means we stay. If Lucaas is right and people have wised up since the ref vote then changing our minds through a GE would at least lend some democratic legitimacy to an about face by the electorate. It's why May refused to have an early GE..although I think that was a mistake personally (from a tactics point of view)it gives Labour that very chance to recover and get organised.
To be honest, Britain's democracy seems out of date and antiquated. The whole house of Lords is an atrocious anachronism. The royalty should have no power and replacing prime minister should trigger a general election.
True but if the election is largely about the EU then pacts could be openly made to form a govt to reverse the decision..you don't need Labour to win an outright majority UK wide..you just need to insure that the Tories don't get a majority(if they've managed to become unified behind Brexit in that time..if not even better). If the electoral pacts are open and the electorate doesn't return a Tory govt then legitimacy can be claimed that the electorate have chosen a remain govt, no matter what it's make up. Of course the risk is getting a Labour party that looks attractive enough on other domestic issues to become electable enough lol...and not having a leader that actually prefers Brexit lol..
TBH not even sure how old you need to be to qualify for the state pension i just know like my works pension** it never seems to get any closer as the finishing line is apparently a flexible "target". **Me being retired on medical grounds got round that problem
The royaltys "power" is purely ceremonial... The House of Lords works surprisingly well despite the undemocratic basis...much better than say a two party dominant state with separation of powers between the executive and legislative branches of govt....where feck all gets done or is watered down to nothing by special interests...cough cough.. While we are 2 party dominant, looking at yankland always convinces me we are better unchanged for the time being.
The majority in SCOTLAND wanted to stay in the EU. Actually, a far, far bigger majority than wanted to stay in the UK. Do keep up.
And that would be their decision, but democratically it's up to them. As you indicate, it would be madness, probably, but that's their decision - just as it was up to England and Wales to make the ****ing insane decision to leave the EU.
Why do you assume they would? The Germans (and their citizens) would find it more palatable to prop up Scotland for ten years or so than Greece, that I can tell you. And though oil has fell by 100%, don't forget that Greece has no oil, so the comparison is more intriguing than at first sight.
You are absolutely clutching at straws there. Once this is triggered all hell is breaking loose. May is already extending it from leave the EU to leave the European Court of justice which has nothing to do with eu and is activelying seeking to degrade human rights legislation in this country. The 2vyears is max term, there is nothing to say the deal trashed out has to be agreed by all across Europe in the end. That's the rub. UK can go so far and then all power to say what's what resides in Eu not here. I see Unilever is telling tesco it's products are not 19% more expensive due to how far sterling has fallen. Most companies across UK are looking at this and delaying investment and I would say actively increasing plans for contingencys for hard brexit or actively moving investment to continent. Imo the moment the trigger is pulled by may there's going to be a **** storm again but this time it's going to be quite hard hitting cos it's not so far off any more it's a solid thing. I am hearing many UK companies are not getting any calls returned etc in the EU organisations they'd normally do business with.... there is imo a serious under estimation of the feelings about what UK has gone and done. Forget the general election. The eu have thier own elections in 2019 and will want UK out totally by then. Forget our one. If we have one it will be well before 2019 in order to impact this.
I'm not an OAP just yet - despite the assertions on here - but I want to be able to enjoy it for a bit when I get there. It's a pet peeve of mine, and not really aimed at you, but the generally accepted "wisdom" in the media and amongst many who don't see their confrontational agenda. I just think everyone needs to be judged on their individual actions and not because of some irrelevant association with a group.
Yeah, I heard that on R5 the other night with Steven Nolan, and my first reaction was 'That's **** all to do with the EU!'. That said, back in June when I spoke to various Brexiters in work and family they were all convinced, thanks to Murdoch and Dacre, that the ECHR was the Supreme Court of the EU.
