Why? Are yes, the old "are all Jews Isrealis or are all Isrealis Jews" question, Do you know that the vast majority (though not all) Jews think of Israel as home and make a point of visiting it at least once in their life.
And? Most Muslims consider Mecca their holiest city and make a point of trying to do the hajj in their lifetime. Doesn't mean all Muslims support Saudi Arabia. Even if Jew and Israeli were synonymous, which they aren't, you'd still be wrong as not every Israeli, let alone Jew, supports Israel's actions in Palestine. An opinion poll from last year shows 75% of British Jews believe Israeli settlements in Gaza and the West Bank are major obstacles for peace and oppose it. 62% believe Israel should cede more territory to Palestine if it meant peace.
I never mentioned supporting anyone, I said "think of as home" which would indicate that many (most) Jews think of Isreal as home. Do most Muslims think of Mecca as home, do Christians think of Bethlehem as home or (narrowed down) Catholics think of Vatican City as home. There is a difference between identifying with a religious site and thinking of it as your homeland.
I never disputed that. You said 'They didn't invent it, but they practice it against the Palestinians quite happily', inferring that Jews as a collective, not Israelis, practice anti-Semitism against Palestinians. I refuted that by saying an opinion poll showed most British Jews oppose Israeli expansion in Palestine and would cede even more land for peace. Jews aren't one homogeneous block as you implied in your original post.
Agreed, we are back to the anti-Semitism, should we give this title to crimes against Arabs? A few years back in the area where I live three graveyards had headstones kicked over and graffiti sprayed on others. The three graveyards were all part of one complex (Philips Park, about 300 yards from the Etihad stadium). The Jewish cemetery got a large write up in the local papers under the heading (not exact wording) "Cemetary hit by race hate attack" and contained a lot of references to ant-Semitism. The other two (Catholic and Protestant) got a small write up about hallway through the paper with the heading "vandals attack cemetery's". They all happened on the same night and all had the same damage. I guess what I am trying to say is, the term anti-Semitism means nothing, it was coined to cover an atrocity that happened to a particular group of people in order to give them some kind of special status. Unfortunately it didn't take into account that there are millions more Semites that the term doesn't seem to cover and the poor old Romani Gypsy's (who suffered the same fate) never even got a term of their own.
I've studied the Holocaust a lot, at college, uni and in my spare time. I'm not a normal teenager; I'm quite morbid.
I am always open to being corrected. I will argue my point (as I see it) but if someone proves me wrong then I have learnt something. There is no such thing as a normal teenager, trust me on this just for now, I have been one, grown up with many and raised three (plus all their mates)
Same here. There'll be times when I'm wrong but if you don't hold your hands up and admit it, you'll keep making the same ignorant mistakes.
It wasn't aimed at you in particular. It was more of a general thing that applies to everyone. Everyone will be ignorant and repeat the same mistakes if they're dogmatic in their views and unwilling to admit they might be wrong.
Have you ever seen true footage from the work camps? Check this from 12.30. The Romany gypsies make an appearance at 19.00. It's a good documentary. Have you ever looked at the counter narrative?
I have, yeah. The only historical revisionism regarding the Holocaust I take seriously is regarding the numbers who died. I don't take historical revisionism based on outright Holocaust denial seriously, though I have studied the counter-narratives by those who believe these theories. The idea that it never happened, that death camps didn't exist and millions of Jews, Slavs, Romani people, homosexuals, political dissidents and persecuted religious groups weren't executed by the Nazi regime is a conspiracy theory that in my opinion is false. The evidence from testimonies of both survivors of death camps and work camps and the guards that worked there is sufficient to prove they existed. The evidence of the 'Final Solution to the Jewish Question' is proven by documents issued by high-ranking Nazis like Himmler, Eichman, Rosenberg, Heydrich, Goering, Goebbels and Bormann. The culpability is divided into two stages: the SS death squads on the Eastern Front committing war crimes against Russians, Russian Jews, Baltic Jews and others and then the state-sponsored deportations of Polish, German, Austrian and French Jews to concentration camps. The methods of execution started off as crude executions by the hundreds by gunshot in ditches then German chemical corporations started producing Zyklon-B in mass quantities to be used in death camps like Auschwitz and Treblinka. Testimonies from employees and employers at German chemical companies, train drivers into Auschwitz, guards at the Nuremberg Trials etc. provide enough substantial evidence to prove the Holocaust occurred and millions were exterminated.
It could have been more, it could have been less. It hardly matters. The whole point was that it was a systematic genocide on an unprecedented scale in human history.
My knowledge of those counter theories is basic as I am put off reading the stuff as a lot of it is clearly based just on racist ideology of the authors, but I am pretty sure that nobody seriously claims the camps didn't exist. The two other bits I have highlighted come from stuff at school, in psychology we did quite a bit about victim testimonies in general and so used a lot of holocaust stuff, even at that time I had a lot of issues with a lot of those that we studied as they just didn't make sense or fit with what we had been taught in history and my professional experience has proved them to be one of the least reliable forms of evidence for a whole load of reasons. Zyklon B was manufactured as pesticide wasnt it, also its not claimed it was used for killing people at treblinka.
Yeah, you're right, Zyklon B is hydrogen cyanide. Treblinka used carbon monoxide poisoning in their gas chambers. They originally used trucks and placed large tubes over the exhaust pipes and funnelled it in gas chambers then made it more 'efficient'.
