You're literally including people using the Quran and that's it! Shall we include people using Chinese menus for the Mandarin number? How many Muslims can actually read Arabic in any form?
Those people who use the chinese menu read in Mandarin do they? And understand the meanings? I think you underestimate how many muslims actually can read and understand Arabic and also the Qur'an. Also you will find muslims amongst themselves use lot of Arabic in every day communication, even the non-arabs
I know plenty of Muslims and very few of them are fluent in Arabic, let alone the classical style that the Quran's written in. Knowing a few phrases and being able to recite a few passages doesn't make the language any more popular, I'm afraid.
I worked with a Lebanese Christian guy. He could speak and understand Arabic perfectly. Not sure he could read it though!
So because of the experience you have with a few muslims you have come to a general conclusion that's how the rest are....if you honestly believe that most muslims just dont have a clue about their belief i think you are mistaken and would be quite suprised how many do know it quite well.
When did I say that the Muslims that I know have no idea about their belief? None of the Christians that I know have a good command of Aramaic, but they still have an idea about the Bible.
The point i am trying to make is that all the islamic teachings are done in Arabic, so you have to learn the language to an extent and i would say majority have a moderate understanding of the language. This is getting even better these days as there is a more demand to learn the language further and understand even better the classical Arabic, especially in the younger generation. For instance my kid is 5 and he is already learning the Arabic language and learning to read the Qur'an. That's how it generally works.
Which is my point. Why didn't God pick a language that people are actually using? If he'd gone with English, Spanish and Mandarin, instead of Hebrew, Aramaic and Arabic, then maybe people would understand this stuff? If various different groups are misinterpreting the texts, then whose fault is that? Obviously I don't believe that there is a god that had any involvement in them in the first place, but hypothetically speaking.
Why not though? Because everyone is born knowing English, Spanish and Mandarin from their mothers womb right! Your trying to make a point that's irrelevant, everyone regardless where they are born they go through a learning process of any given language, I think that fact that its not only Arab's that follow the religion makes your point irrelevant.
You seem to be misunderstanding my point, so I might not be stating it clearly enough. If God wants people to understand his message, which is generally the point of a message, then why not make it in a language that he knew would be widely used? Picking ones that few people know, that nobody knows or an arcane version of one that some people use would seem to be a mistake. How is he right? It's got nothing to do with it.
About the Tower of Babel bit? I couldn't remember whether that was actually part of Islam or not. Just looked it up and there's a similar one, but it didn't make the cut, apparently.
That's a similar question to one I was asking. Even for people fluent in that language, there are differing interpretations of the words, a fair amount of which are just rehashed from existing texts from the Hebrews and Greeks, with a bit of Arab pagan thrown in. It hardly hints at an almighty trying to clarify things. It hints far more at propoganda for political and military control. Surely, an omnipotent almighty trying to clear things up would have just passed the message directly to everyone?
I'd imagine that many of the stories in the bible are similar to stories in the Koran just told differently especially the Old Testament.
There's a whole load of paganism in religion and some give accounts on biblical events like the 'great flood' worth a read! The Flood of Noah and the Flood of Gilgamesh by Frank Lorey, M.A. Evidence for Creation Background The Epic of Gilgamesh has been of interest to Christians ever since its discovery in the mid-nineteenth century in the ruins of the great library at Nineveh, with its account of a universal flood with significant parallels to the Flood of Noah's day.1, 2 The rest of the Epic, which dates back to possibly third millennium B.C., contains little of value for Christians, since it concerns typical polytheistic myths associated with the pagan peoples of the time. However, some Christians have studied the ideas of creation and the afterlife presented in the Epic. Even secular scholars have recognized the parallels between the Babylonian, Phoenician, and Hebrew accounts, although not all are willing to label the connections as anything more than shared mythology.3 There have been numerous flood stories identified from ancient sources scattered around the world.4 The stories that were discovered on cuneiform tablets, which comprise some of the earliest surviving writing, have obvious similarities. Cuneiform writing was invented by the Sumerians and carried on by the Akkadians. Babylonian and Assyrian are two dialects of the Akkadian, and both contain a flood account. While there are differences between the original Sumerian and later Babylonian and Assyrian flood accounts, many of the similarities are strikingly close to the Genesis flood account.5 The Babylonian account is the most intact, with only seven of 205 lines missing.6 It was also the first discovered, making it the most studied of the early flood accounts. The Epic of Gilgamesh is contained on twelve large tablets, and since the original discovery, it has been found on others, as well as having been translated into other early languages.7 The actual tablets date back to around 650 B.C. and are obviously not originals since fragments of the flood story have been found on tablets dated around 2,000 B.C.8 Linguistic experts believe that the story was composed well before 2,000 B.C. compiled from material that was much older than that date.9 The Sumerian cuneiform writing has been estimated to go as far back as 3,300 B.C.10 The Story The Epic was composed in the form of a poem. The main figure is Gilgamesh, who actually may have been an historical person. The Sumerian King List shows Gilgamesh in the first dynasty of Uruk reigning for 126 years.11 This length of time is not a problem when compared with the age of the pre-flood patriarchs of the Bible. Indeed, after Gilgamesh, the kings lived a normal life span as compared with today.12 The King List is also of interest as it mentions the flood specifically—"the deluge overthrew the land."13 The story starts by introducing the deeds of the hero Gilgamesh. He was one who had great knowledge and wisdom, and preserved information of the days before the flood. Gilgamesh wrote on tablets of stone all that he had done, including building the city walls of Uruk and its temple for Eanna. He was an oppressive ruler, however, which caused his subjects to cry out to the "gods" to create a nemesis to cause Gilgamesh strife.14 After one fight, this nemesis—Enkidu—became best friends with Gilgamesh. The two set off to win fame by going on many dangerous adventures in which Enkidu is eventually killed. Gilgamesh then determines to find immortality since he now fears death. It is upon this search that he meets Utnapishtim, the character most like the Biblical Noah.15 In brief, Utnapishtim had become immortal after building a ship to weather the Great Deluge that destroyed mankind. He brought all of his relatives and all species of creatures aboard the vessel. Utnapishtim released birds to find land, and the ship landed upon a mountain after the flood. The story then ends with tales of Enkidu's visit to the underworld.16 Even though many similarities exist between the two accounts, there still are serious differences. The table below presents a comparison of the main aspects of the two accounts of the flood as presented in the Book of Genesis and in the Epic of Gilgamesh. COMPARISON OF GENESIS AND GILGAMESH GENESIS GILGAMESH Extent of flood Global Global Cause Man's wickedness Man's sins Intended for whom? All mankind One city & all mankind Sender Yahweh Assembly of "gods" Name of hero Noah Utnapishtim Hero's character Righteous Righteous Means of announcement Direct from God In a dream Ordered to build boat? Yes Yes Did hero complain? Yes Yes Height of boat Several stories (3) Several stories (6) Compartments inside? Many Many Doors One One Windows At least one At least one Outside coating Pitch Pitch Shape of boat Rectangular Square Human passengers Family members only Family & few others Other passengers All species of animals All species of animals Means of flood Ground water & heavy rain Heavy rain Duration of flood Long (40 days & nights plus) Short (6 days & nights) Test to find land Release of birds Release of birds Types of birds Raven & three doves Dove, swallow, raven Ark landing spot Mountain -- Mt. Ararat Mountain -- Mt. Nisir Sacrificed after flood? Yes, by Noah Yes, by Utnapishtim Blessed after flood? Yes Yes Some comments need to be made about the comparisons in the table. Some of the similarities are very striking, while others are very general. The command for Utnapishtim to build the boat is remarkable: "O man of Shuruppak, son of Ubar-Tutu, tear down thy house, build a ship; abandon wealth, seek after life; scorn possessions, save thy life. Bring up the seed of all kinds of living things into the ship which thou shalt build. Let its dimensions be well measured."17 The cause of the flood as sent in judgment on man's sins is striking also. The eleventh tablet, line 180 reads, "Lay upon the sinner his sin; lay upon the transgressor his transgression."18 A study of these parallels to Genesis 6-9, as well as the many others, demonstrate the non-coincidental nature of these similarities. The meanings of the names of the heroes, however, have absolutely no common root or connection. Noah means "rest," while Utnapishtim means "finder of life."19 Neither was perfect, but both were considered righteous and relatively faultless compared to those around them. Utnapishtim also took a pilot for the boat, and some craftsmen, not just his family in the ark. It is also interesting that both accounts trace the landing spot to the same general region of the Middle East; however, Mt. Ararat and Mt. Nisir are about 300 miles apart. The blessing that each hero received after the flood was also quite different. Utnapishtim was granted eternal life while Noah was to multiply and fill the earth and have dominion over the animals. Conclusions From the early days of the comparative study of these two flood accounts, it has been generally agreed that there is an obvious relationship. The widespread nature of flood traditions throughout the entire human race is excellent evidence for the existence of a great flood from a legal/historical point of view.20 Dating of the oldest fragments of the Gilgamesh account originally indicated that it was older than the assumed dating of Genesis.21 However, the probability exists that the Biblical account had been preserved either as an oral tradition, or in written form handed down from Noah, through the patriarchs and eventually to Moses, thereby making it actually older than the Sumerian accounts which were restatements (with alterations) to the original. A popular theory, proposed by liberal "scholars," said that the Hebrews "borrowed" from the Babylonians, but no conclusive proof has ever been offered.22 The differences, including religious, ethical, and sheer quantity of details, make it unlikely that the Biblical account was dependent on any extant source from the Sumerian traditions. This still does not stop these liberal and secular scholars from advocating such a theory. The most accepted theory among evangelicals is that both have one common source, predating all the Sumerian forms.23 The divine inspiration of the Bible would demand that the Genesis account is the correct version. Indeed the Hebrews were known for handing down their records and tradition.24 The Book of Genesis is viewed for the most part as an historical work, even by many liberal scholars, while the Epic of Gilgamesh is viewed as mythological. The One-source Theory must, therefore, lead back to the historical event of the Flood and Noah's Ark.25 To those who believe in the inspiration and infallibility of the Bible, it should not be a surprise that God would preserve the true account of the Flood in the traditions of His people. The Genesis account was kept pure and accurate throughout the centuries by the providence of God until it was finally compiled, edited, and written down by Moses.26 The Epic of Gilgamesh, then, contains the corrupted account as preserved and embellished by peoples who did not follow the God of the Hebrews. REFERENCES Keller, Werner, The Bible as History, (New York: William Morrow and Company, 1956), p. 32. Sanders, N.K., The Epic of Gilgamesh ,(an English translation with introduction) (London: Penguin Books, 1964), p. 9. Graves, Robert, The Creek Myths, Volume 1,(London: Penguin Books, 1960), pp. 138-143. Rehwinkel, Alfred M., The Flood in the Light of the Bible, Geology, and Archaeology, (St. Louis: Concordia Publishing, 1951), p. 129. O'Brien, J. Randall, "Flood Stories of the Ancient Near East", Biblical Illustrator, (Fall 1986, volume 13, number 1), p. 61. Barton, George A., Archaeology and the Bible, (Philadelphia: American Sunday School Union, 1916), pp. 273-277 Keller, The Bible as History, p. 33. Whitcomb, John C. and Morris, Henry M., The Genesis Flood, (Phillipsburg: Presbyterian and Reformed, 1961), p. 38. Heidel, Alexander, The Gilgamesh Epic and Old Testament Parallels, (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1949), p. 13. O'Brien, "Flood Stories of the Ancient Near East", p. 61. Heidel, The Gilgamesh Epic and Old Testament Parallel, p. 13. Sanders, The Epic of Gilgamesh, p. 21. Vos, Howard F., Genesis and Archaeology, (Chicago: Moody Press, 1963), p. 35. Sanders, The Epic of Gilgamesh, pp. 20-23. Ibid., pp. 30 39. Ibid., pp. 39-42. The Bible as History, p. 33. Sanders, The Epic of Gilgamesh, p. 109. O'Brien, "Flood Stories of the Ancient Near East", pp. 62, 63. Morris, Henry M., Science and the Bible, (Chicago: Moody Press, 1986), p. 85. O'Brien, "Flood Stories of the Ancient Near East", p. 64. Ibid. Ibid. Morris, Science and the Bible, p. 92. Ibid., p. 85. Whitcomb, John C., The Early Earth (Grand Rapids: Baker Book House, 1986), p. 134; Whitcomb and Morris, The Genesis Flood, p. 488. * Mr. Lorey is a Registered Historical Archaeologist. Cite this article: Lorey, F. 1997. The Flood of Noah and the Flood of Gilgamesh. Acts & Facts. 26 (3).
Paganism is an umbrella term for a variety of beliefs and philosophies. Many of the ceremonies and festivals of more re entry religions have their basis is pagan beliefs, and simply incorporated them into theirs. The kabba was a centre of pagan worship, and contained hundreds of idols to various gods before Islam adopted it.
I've yet to read anything in any holy book re dinosaurs, we know they existed but this seems greatly ignored Also the Pope & AB of C wear mitres which were used to honour the fish God.
