Ok, I will go through that as I have answered which I considered were main points from you. I don't think you will fine anyone considers the translated version of the Qur'an in English as the Qur'an, its merely a translation in a simple form. The Qur'an is in Classical Arabic, one word in that can have various meanings, whereas in English you don't have the same linguistic word for word translation. I would say English is rather simple language in itself and I am not down playing English but that's what it is. There are millions of people who do know the language and are not from an Arab background. This is like anything in life, if you truly want to understand something you study the subject matter, nobody is born with the knowledge to be an expert.
But then does beg the obvious question on it being the divine word if the almighty as guidance to all mankind. I'll dig a link out later where it discusses the other versions that were compiled. From memory, there was a discussion on which Arab dialect to choose for the current version, which begs the same question. This is more so because muhamed was illiterate, and says he received the 'word' in various forms and symbols This implies an almighty was, as you'd expect, capable of a universal language.
As a example I will give you this ayah in English how the translations are very simple in English. Surah 7. Al-A'raf, Ayah 17: Transliteration : Thumma laatiyannahum min bayni aydeehim wamin khalfihim waAAan aymanihim waAAan shamailihim walatajidu aktharahum shakireena Asad : and shall most certainly fall upon them openly as well as in a manner beyond their ken,12and from their right and from their left: and most of them Thou wilt find ungrateful." Malik : I Will come upon them from the front, from the rear, from the right, and from the left, and You will not find most of them to be grateful." Pickthall : Then I shall come upon them from before them and from behind them and from their right bands and from their left hands, and Thou wilt not find most of them beholden (unto Thee). Yusuf Ali : "Then will I assault them from before them and behind them from their right and their left: nor wilt Thou find in most of them gratitude (for Thy mercies). I have highlighted two words here to show the difference in linguistic sense and translation, both of these words are translated as from to make it simple. Min - From wAAan - From As you can see the kind of from used in Arabic for front and back is the same but from the right and the left is changed but in English it’s still the same, of the many explanations and meanings of these words, Min is immediate and wAAan alludes to further distance linguistically and you can see this fits in with the view of Muslims belief as there is an Angel on the left and the right of each person and the word in the Qur'an is interchanged when used in this ayah.
I hope you do understand the difference between dialects and versions, this current version you keep referring to I am not sure if that is by intention or mistake because there wasn't another version of the Qur'an. I an not sure where you are getting these information from but where you are making an assumption that Muhammed (saw) received this in various forms and symbols is incorrect to say the least, there is no reference of this claims.
The highlighted ones in red I have answered. Various codex of what exactly are you talking about? What are you talking about here exactly? Yes some companions died but the Qur'an has always been oral and has been written down as well and collated together, so am not sure what's the point of those dying has to do with the Qur'an, are you implying its incomplete? First I have heard of goats eating it up or some have been torn up deliberately? The compilation if that's what you are talking about in written form all together, some say it was done after the death, some say before but the complete Qur'an existed before as we don't believe there was any revelations after the Prophet (saw) death. The main point is the Qur'an existed in its entriety in oral and written form before and after even to this day the complete Qur'an exists orally. You do realise the hadith's are not part of the Qur'an right? There are various source and whole big subject on its own right.
I'm posting these as examples of why I wonder how we can decide which is right. Just answering that so and so is not recognised doesn't actually resolve that, as certainly some muslims follow the ones you say are discredited, and would presumably argue where they feel your version is lacking. As I understand it, a key concept of the koran is its claim to clarify what went before. If the answer is for people to search. I'm doing that, but so far, I could find things to claim or rebut almost anything, which seems odd for a book by an almighty, designed to give clear guidance. http://submission.org/verify_are_all_Arabic_versions_of_Quran_the_same.html One of the famous misinformation spread by these scholars is that all the Qurans in the world are identical, and that it is free from any variation. This is not true and has nothing to do with God's promise in verse15:9. Although the Christian missionaries like to attack the Quran for such variations they only show their ignorance with the Quran and its miracle. https://sadisblog.wordpress.com/2012/05/05/wahi-divine-revelation/ 3. Features of Revelation of the holy Quran : The Holy Qur’an was revealed to the Holy Prophet (saw) in a variety of different ways and features : a. In the form of dreams: Prophet Muhammad (saw) would sometimes receive divine revelations of the Holy Qur’an in the form of dreams. Ayesha (ra) narrates that the beginning of Wahi began in the form of true dreams. Whenever the Holy Prophet (saw) would see a dream its true meaning and significance it would become clear by the morning (Bukhari). b. Revelation revealed directly into the heart : The Holy Prophet (saw) also used to receive revelation directly into the heart. Imaam Hakim narrates that the Holy Prophet (saw) stated: “Angel Gibraeel conveyed a message into my heart. That no man can die until his ‘rizk’ or resources have been completed. So Man should fear God and try all means to achieve his resources. If there is a delay in receiving your due then do not go astray to achieve it for whatever you will receive will be through Allah and what he has already ordained”. c. Revelation disclosed upon the sound of a bell: Another method of revelation was at the sound of a bell. The Holy Prophet (saw) would hear the ringing of a bell or a musical sweet sound, which would be immediately followed by divine revelation. According to Hadrat Ayesha (r.a) once the divine revelation began, Angel Gibraeel (a.s) would come at various times with different ayahs of the Qur’an. According to her, the Holy Prophet (saw) himself stated that: “Sometimes wahi comes to me after a bell rings and that is a heavy time for me”. (Bukhari) This method of revelation appears to be the most difficult type for the Holy Prophet (saw) to bear. If he (saw) was mounted on a camel and received revelation after the ringing of a bell, the camel would be unable to bear its weight and be forced to come down upon its knees. On another occasion it is narrated by Hadrat Zaid bin Thabit (r.a) that the Holy Prophet’s (saw) thigh was resting on his thigh at the time of receiving wahi. The force of the revelation was so strong that it felt as if his own thigh was breaking. Hadrat Ayesha (r.a) also reports that during these occasions the Holy Prophet’s (saw) brow would sweat or that his face would become very red. d. Revelation Brought by an Angel in the Form of a Man: One of the most common ways of receiving revelation was through Angel Gibraeel (as). The Holy Qur’an states: Say: Whoever is an enemy to Gibraeel – for he brings down the (revelation)to thy heart by Allah’s will, a confirmation of what went before , and guidance and glad tidings for those who believe, – Whoever is an enemy to Allah and His angels and apostles, to Gibraeel and Michale, – Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject faith”( Al-Bakarah: 2:97-98) Angel Gibraeel (a.s) would sometimes come to the Holy Prophet (saw) in the form of a man. Hadrat Ummi Salma (r.a) reports that: “once I saw Dhaya Qalbi in front of the Prophet (saw) talking to him. The Prophet (saw) then asked me: “Do you know who this man is?” I replied: “That was Dhaya Qalbi” By God I thought it was him but the Prophet of God (saw) later announced in his Kutbah it was the Angle Gibraeel”. e. Revelation Through an Angel in his True Form: Angel Gibraeel also came to the Holy Prophet (saw) in his actual angelic form. Hadrat Abdullah ibn Masood (r.a) narrates that Prophet Muhammad (saw) said: “When I saw Angel Gibraeel he had 600 wings”. f. Revelation Directly from God: God has directly communicated with some of His Prophets as with Prophet Musa (a.s) on Mount Toor. The Holy Prophet (saw) spoke directly with Allah (swt) during his ascent into the heavens, the Miraj. There, Allah (swt) gave divine revelation to his Holy Prophet (saw) concerning the obligatory prayers. It is interesting to note how the differing methods of communication reach their climatic end with ‘Kalam Elahi’, Allah directly speaking to His beloved. Initially Allah (swt) beckons His Prophet (saw) gently through dreams. Then revelation is communicated directly into his heart. Thereafter the Angel Gibraeel (a.s) comes with revelation in the form of a man. As the Holy Prophet (saw) draws closer and closer to Allah (swt) Angel Gibraeel (a.s) is shown in his full glory to him. Finally Allah (swt) calls His beloved Prophet (saw) to the heavens and talks to him directly in the finale of the Miraj-un-Nabi.
Again you quote a website that isn't a main stream site and are regarded as heretics. The other blog you quote is different from what you said initially as forms and symbols. I wasn't disputing the revelations through the angel, what I was disputing is what you meant by forms and symbols and I still don't see what symbols you are still talking about.
The site I linked is only one of a number that say the same or similar things. No doubt they and others would have doubts about some of the versions you support. I mentioned that at the start. You're no longer answering questions, even if they did just tend to be cut and pastes of stuff i'd already read, which is a shame. I'll draw my own conclusions from that. Cheers anyway.
You'd have thought that the Abrahamic God would've had a bit of foresight and released one of his books in a language that would survive a few years...
Aye, the Christian ones even have names we can still understand. I perhaps need forgiveness for coveting her ass.
There are two pretty obvious reasons that we still understand the Christian names. 1) We use them. 2) They're translated. Not many Menashsheh's around though, to be honest.
Translated? Nonsense, I'm sure there's still loads of Simons in Nazareth. The pictures of Jesus must be wrong though, he looks more like Robert Powell than a Mexican.
I will get your questions in time, i am sure once i give the response i am sure you will find another angle as it still wont be good enough. Have patience not on my pc to give you a instant response.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_total_number_of_speakers Feel free to point out Classical Arabic, Hebrew or Aramaic on there. Even if you want to go with modern Arabic, then he managed to miss out the top three. Could've picked Mandarin and got a culture that had printing before Jesus turned up as a bonus.
It's nothing to do with 'angles'. If that's what you think, it's possibly what's responsible for the 'answers' being judgmental and largely dismissive or simple cut and pastes. I'm curious, and trying to learn more. That is all. (although an opinion is forming) I'm in no rush, if you'd rather not bother, I'll not be chasing you up, I've plenty else to occupy my mind. I've been browsing this one. https://islamqa.info/en/ as it gets good reviews from other muslim sites. It's where I good some of the thinmgs I asked about, such as jinns changing form, abbrogation and the confusion.
1.3 billion Chinese against 1.6 billion muslims who use classical arabic even in the smallest of form so your point about Mandarin is mute really. Plus the fact that Mandarin is for one culture and people whereas Arabic is being used cross culture so surely thats more universal and a good thing!
