All teams have dicks, but Spurs, Leeds, Man U, Cardiff and Millwall just seem intent on one thing... trying to get a name for themselves. Nothing to do with being hard. And I know they have a majority of decent fans but a vast number of wanna to be's attaching themselves to a few hard core nutters. I'll be handing out my "Turn to God Fliers"
It's all blown way out of proportion. Police forces in other cities usually come out in numbers when we're in town but the WY Police, arguably the toughest with regards to hooliganism, rarely have much of a presence at Elland Road because they know better than anyone that we are actually a peaceful bunch of loudmouths. I believe the reputation isn't entirely founded. Of course, we have hooligans and a lot of them, but I don't necessarily believe they always go out looking for trouble. I think it comes to them, with other hooligans wanting to "have a go" at "dirty leeds". When they get beat and Leeds go round wrecking ****, the rep gets worse. I'm not saying it's not an issue, I just think our hooligans are no worse than any other hooligans. Ours just attract more trouble because everyone wants to have a pop at us.
Marko, that reads a little like a poor excuse for a bad reputation. That behaviour is just not justified whatever the reason. To say "trouble comes looking for them" is pretty lame. Most clubs have some trouble makers and no fan should in any way condone or make excuses/mitigation for them. I'd have had more respect if you'd said, "yes, we have some idiots, and I wish they didn't turn up"
I think he was just replying to the idea that we were somehow worse than any other club. The only reason we have more of a reputation is the reputation itself, other hooligans search ours out looking for trouble. It doesn't excuse them or their actions, but it's an explanation as to why that element of our support tends to be exagerated.
Saints who used to have a squeaky clean reputation seem to have accumulated a few idiots recently who might turn out if trouble is expected. Never happened in our Prem days, whether it's related or part of general deterioration in behaviour I don't know. Let's hope all arguments are settled on the pitch.
I realise that, but it is a vicious circle, as that can be said of Millwall, West Ham, Wolves, Stoke, Cardiff, etc. Reputations for that sort of behaviour are not normal based on fiction and it is still wrong to "hide" behind the "trouble comes looking for us statement". You are not worse than any club, but some of your fans are worse than alot of clubs when it comes to trouble. I don't believe that normally fairly peaceful fans wake up on match day and go "it's Leeds today, or hammers, let's go looking for a fight". If they did, the natural course is to start looking for trouble more regularly elsewhere too. what is probably more important to say is that when they do cause any trouble, it is a shame because it can tarnish the rest of you who are usually one of the best supported away fans.
I wasn't excusing it. As much as I love following the most hated club in the country, I'm not a big fan of fighting. Hooligans fighting each other is ok until others get dragged into it, through criminal damage or caught in the crossfire or whatever. I still believe our hooligans are no worse than anyone elses. Just ours get in more trouble because so many other fans want a barny when we're about. I must reiterate I wasn't trying to excuse it, I think it's appaling. But to think we're any worse than any other clubs hooligans is completely off the mark.
On this matter, I'd say that Leeds do actually have a larger proportion of fans who look for a scrap than most other clubs. After nearly every home match, there's 'youths' lingering around looking for opposition fans who'll be 'up for it', especially when the notorious clubs like Millwall, Tottenham and Cardiff come to town. I've never been one of them and I never intend to be, but in reality all they are is consenting adults who agree to take part the a mutually enjoyable experience of the fight. At least that's my take on it. As long as they aren't damaging people's property or breaking ground regulations, I don't really have a problem with it. People do all sorts for pleasure. Agree with Marko that when innocents get dragged into it (I'd be ****ing ****ting it if I got entangled!) and property gets damaged, it's gone too far. I think when Leeds go away, a lot of the dormant 'lads' from the 70s and 80s who used to follow clubs like Southampton but have now been driven away by banning orders, the prices and general softening of modern football are the ones who tend to come out of the woodwork, as well as the lads who are that way inclined and a bit pissed up and feel like having a go at some 'Leeds scum'. This is probably part of what triggers such a high police presence at Leeds away games, as well as the patronizing escorts to games, and when you look for instance at the police's treatment of 200-odd lads who were drinking at a pub near Manchester before the infamous Old Trafford cup tie in 2010 (the police Section 27'd them which meant they were all under arrest, couldn't go to the game they'd paid to watch and couldn't even go to the toilet), it's not hard to understand why Leeds top the banning leagues year on year. I sound like one of these hoolie fetishists, I'm really not! Just an observation from my travels watching Leeds over the last couple of years, an experience which is inseparably linked with the presence of the police and their campaign to eradicate disorderly football fans.
I'm assuming by "softening" you mean there's less trouble. There's less trouble because the police are so goddamn relentless on football hooligans. You'd be daft to get into a fight on a match day, should have seen the number of coppers on wellington street last sunday. As far as I could tell it might not have even been a fight based on football, but some bloke had been twatted by a chair and some kid had tried to run off n got caught. Must have been about 20 of the old bill there and I didn't see many people actually involved in bother. It had all kicked off in that place next to Deep Blue from what I could gather but seriously... coppers are scary on match days. As for the rush of fighting, a friend of mine was a service crew member in the 70s, in his youth. He told me he's quite ashamed of the person he used to be, he's changed so much since then, but he never denied enjoying every second of it. He wasn't one of the bigwigs, but he was one of the "never surrender" types that never backed down. The only issue with it (assuming no non-consenting parties are involved) is that taxpayers have to pay for their healthcare afterwards.
fair do's fella. as a matter of interest, do you really think your yobs are more wanted for a barny than Millwall's?
Wouldn't have said more wanted, no. But I would have said we probably win more fights and cause more collateral damage, due to significantly higher numbers.
By softening I also meant the all-seater stadiums, the quieter atmospheres, but yeah, also what they would perceive as a 'softer' generation of football fans because we're generally more affluent and less violent. I was actually there watching that Wellington Street incident from the bus stop directly opposite. A couple of Newcastle fans went in the West Riding pub, apparently bottled a Leeds fan in there (who was sporting a Paddy Kisnorbo-style head bandage after it died down) and the entire pub ran out, started throwing chairs at them and they got completely battered. Police turned up at least five minutes after the fighting started and from where I was, I didn't see a single arrest made - the lads just went back into the pub and were never bothered again by the cops. It was a similar situation at Sheff Utd away last season; a fight broke out, the Police turned up woefully late and everyone just scattered. It's not as difficult to get away with as these CCTV cops shows would have you think.
That incident with the police at the united game was a shocker. I remember reading about that. I expect the old bill asked her majesty's to refund all the ticket and travel money to the fans though ....
