Of course I am being fair. I stated that he made some critical saves including the penalty. It's my observation that minor errors by ANY goalkeeper often results in serious consequences. It goes without saying that mistakes in the attacking or middle third generally tend not to have such serious results. You state you haven't seen the game. Aye well, post a few more qualified comments.
How did it deny a goalscoring opportunity? They got a penalty! That's the issue. So many strikers (including Mbokani today by the way) aim to win a penalty rather than score because it's an easiee way to get a very clear goalscoring opportunity than by actually trying to score. It's ridiculous punishing the defending team twice by also sending someone off. The only time someone should be sent off for professional foul/handball is when the offence has actually benefitted the defending team, for example if it's outside the area and a free kick isn't much consolation. If the attacking team is celebrating winning a penalty, then there obviously isn't a great injustice against them which needs levelling out. Neither Livermore nor Cech should have got any kind of card today. It just seems to be the status quo that someone has to get a card for every penalty. Did either of them really do anything wrong?
Jake deliberately handballed it. Course he should have got a card. Yellow though not red but if the rules are red... stupid thing to do.
I don't think a footballer ever deliberately handballs it apart from very rare cases like the Suarez world cup one. But why should it be a card? I know that's what always happens but why? Has he done something really unacceptable? Has he gained an unfair advantage? No he's conceded a penalty. Who are we punishing or consoling through the award of a card? Would Arsenal have been terribly inconvenienced by getting a penalty out of that situation?
It was a shot on goal from point blank range, Livermore had an outstretched arm that turned it wide. There is no case for arguing whether its a clear scoring opportunity or not, it blatantly is. A red card is absolutely deserved, as today proved not every penalty ends up in a goal. If you got your way players would e able to cheat by using their hands to stop the ball going in to the net in order for a second chance to save the goal. It would effectively turn it into rush goalie and would be a complete disaster.
Yes they do! There has been a lot I've seen & it's obvious that they have done it, Elmo's "goal" v Newcastle, Maradona's hand of God, Thierry Henry v Ireland. That's just the ones that immediately spring to mind.
I tried to be clear in saying that a red should only be awarded if the offence (such as a handball) actually benefits the defending team which it obviously would in the scenario you've described. Jake obviously tried to pull his hand away. That's because he knew a penalty is bad. Arsenal would have been happy to see it hit his hand. Far too often attackers get exactly what they want in winning a penalty and yet the official feel the need to also console them by sending someone off. A penalty is a goalscoring opportunity.
Christ. There's really no need to try and turn it into a big argument you two. Why highlight part of a sentence when the 'except' was obviously such a key part of it. Yes you've listed some other very rare cases like the Suarez one I mentioned. We're not talking about that though are we. We're talking about every week in league games all over the country a ball innocuously hitting a defenders hand. Maybe a penalty maybe not. The rules are very vague. Deliberate, as Quill says, is a ridiculous way of measuring it. That's all I was getting at.
Ref was useless. Wasn't even going to give the clear penalty to us. The **** him. We move on. Hopefully see the new lads start the next few too.
On the replay you can see that after the contact his arm moves away from the ball. He couldn't react fast enough bit that's obviously what he wanted to do a split second earlier. Before you misquote me, I'm not saying that means it wasn't a pen. That's not relevant. My point was that it shows that he didn't want to concede a penalty just like all defenders don't. Whereas attackers deliberately kick the ball away from goal because being brought down is easier than scoring through skill. Mbokani did it today. It's a **** thing about the game that penalties have become something strikers aim for. A penalty is celebrated by the attacking team in 99% of cases. So why should the officials need to further reward them when awarding one? They were right to change the rule but as ever they needlessly complicated it with daft clauses about intent. Should have just been for the ref to decide whether the penalty was an advantage or disadvantage for the attacking team. In 99% of cases it's an advantage so no further action should be taken in my opinion. Unless of course a card is deserved for some other reason such as the severity of a foul or violent conduct. If the penalty is a disadvantage such as for Ghana at the 2010 WC or the situation Bob described then yes send the offender off.
The really pathetic thing about that is that he accepted his linesman's view without question. Basically admitting that he saw it wrong from much closer than the linesman was. Not a lot of faith in his own judgment has he?
With all due respect the only person that knows if it was deliberate hand ball is Jake, and I understand that he has come out and said he did not intentionally handle the ball. So how is that a FACT? The only fact was the ref gave it.
Some interesting comments about yesterday's events. My take on the season so far is one of 'we have been here before' and know from past experience now that staying in this league is all about coming out on top of a small cluster of clubs who usually wobble around the bottom 6 or 7 all season. Many fans will remember all too well this league is both unforgiving and definitely biased towards the sides at or near the top and always will be,the trick is to move on from a defeat with damage limitation and regroup ready for the Anfield game were once again few pundits will expect us to win little more than a corner. Looking further ahead,apart from Chelski October's fixtures see City take on a cluster of games with genuine points up for grabs,these are the type of games that will decided our destiny next season,especially if we can get a player or two back from injury. Rant over.
How anyone can say Jake deliberately handled the ball is ridiculous. The ball was five yards away and smashed at him. The only person who knows if Jake delibarately handled the ball is Jake, if he did he deserved to be sent off. My opinion is he didn't mean to, if he didn't meant to a penalty and a yellow card is enough. That's my opinion not fact. I think people need to realise their opinion isn't fact. I was fairly happy with the performance, everyone gave their all. Diomande looked lost today and Robertson had two men to mark at all times. Compare that to the right where Snoddy provided excellent cover to Elmo. Jakupovic looked average and kept palming the ball back into the centre of the goal, which every keeper knows not to do. I didn't think Meyler played well today, yes he played some nice balls he also lost the ball a number of time. The fourth goal came because Meyler lost the ball and gave Arsenal a throw in. We need to learn when to play and when not to play, the last two goals could of easily been avoided if we didn't give the ball away so easily. With 11 men I reckon we could of got something out of that game. However, there are still a number of positives today and a lot for the season as a whole. Lets bring 2/3 players in next Saturday and I think we might get something from the game.
Meyler worked hard and did some decent stuff, but he gave the ball away far too often and against a team like Arsenal you're always going to get punished. Huddlestone did the same.
I have to say that we were second best all over the park today against a very good Arsenal team, even before the sending off. I don`t honestly think we would have fared much better with 11 still on the park. Some strange decisions made by the ref, but when you play the so called `bigger` teams then this has always been the case. I have to say I thought that Maguire did ok when he came on, Mason looked lively and Mbokani could be very useful when up to full speed. I never expected much from this game and tbh right from the off we didn`t look like getting anything from it. I suspect there will be a number of changes for Stoke, and then Liverpool. While Jak pulled off some excellent saves, it was his mistake that gifted them the first goal, and while it was a terrific shot for the fourth, for me he could have done better. Clucas had a decent game against the on rushing tide of red and white, but their movement on and off the ball was excellent. Not too disheartened by this, given we were down to ten after 30 minutes I thought that the score did flatter them, but they were worthy winners. Now is the time for Mick Phelan to show how good he is, changes do need to be made, and while the lads on duty have performed admirably, there are definitely improvements that can be made with the personnel we have brought in.
I think I've been impressed with Hudds so far this season, but yesterday he was simply not at the races, Meyler didn't have the best of games but he was the better of the 2, Hudds, Jak & Dio should be the players replaced at Liverpool, by Mason, Marshall & not sure about the last one, Bob or Henrikson?
It's a good point about Maguire. Stepped up with the ball. Negated the need for clucas to sit so deep. We were beaten as soon as they scored. As our only plan was to sit back and soak it up. If ozil hadn't missed a sitter it would have been worse. Strange. Thought phelan was attack minded.
