Off Topic The Politics Thread

If they bring all those jobs with them we will have em

 

Apparently Jeremy Corbyn thinks it's ok to repeatedly appear on Iranian state TV, receive £20k for it ('not an enormous amount' according to him, even though 45% of British workers get less than that every year) and then lie about what he was talking about (he claims 'human rights', absolutely zero evidence of that). But it's not ok for workers to have a social drink after work because this 'discriminates against mothers who need to get home to their children'.

It would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic. The sooner this sick joke of a 'leader' wins his little election and the Labour Party splits the better.

 

****ing hell Stan, I had to google that to find out what you were on about. My search suggests that you were either reading the Times of Israel or the Mail online. I'd plump for the latter given that you quote the bit about 45% earning less than £20k per annum - which gives the superficial impression that he got £20k for one appearance, when it was actually for 5 appearances between 2009 and 2012. Zero evidence that he spoke about human rights? It would be easy to check I suppose - has anyone done that?

I am a natural Labour supporter and was pleased when Corbyn was elected leader because it signalled a move away from the Tory-lite Blairite regime that lost them my vote. However, I have become more and more disillusioned with him personally and would now welcome a further change. Whether Smith is the right man is debatable, but the left-wing agenda that he is campaigning on demonstrates that the parliamentary party are going to have to get used to the fact that Labour is supposed to represent an alternative to the Tories, not just more of the same.

 

Both stories from the Times, which is of course a right wing rag, but it has the best online app. £4K per 5 minute talking head soundbite is still an insult. I was a little OTT, but I'm sick to death of this bloke - I am a default Labour voter (though I don't really fit the demographic) unless they give me reason to avoid them, which they do with depressing frequency. What the **** is the leader of the opposition spending time talking about after work drinking for, especially in terms which will alienate a big swathe of people? Why doesn't he just say his inclination is always to support any regime or organisation that is anti Israel and anti US and probably anti UK? Even Billy Bragg reckons Corbyn is a last century politician.

There is room for a real left wing party in the UK. It won't get many votes unless it goes down the populist route, never mind how many people join the bandwagon as party members. That has never been the Labour Party, which at its best marries pragmatism and principle and is progressive, not ideological and rigid.

 

One problem with the Labour leadership so far as the public is concerned, is that you have one candidate who believes it was a "tragedy" that Osama Bin Laden was killed, against an opponent who thinks we can talk to ISIS (which is a batty as calling Goering in Summer 1940 to negotiate a no-fly zone). These statements define the men. Neither will have appeal to the general body of UK voters. The choice in the Labour leadership is as woeful as that facing voters in the US election.

This must be one of the most frustrating times to be a Labour supporter since Michael Foot.

 

Meanwhile £3k+ buys you lunch with Theresa May at the Tory party conference. Such a refreshing new approach to politics.

 

You are intruding on private grief Goldie. I would suggest that your time would be better spent reflecting on how the **** we ended up with Boris Johnson as Foreign Secretary and Jeremy 'Nye' Hunt as Health Secretary.

 

It is grief, Strolls, but not entirely private. The country needs a robust, responsible opposition to curb the excesses of government.

As to Hunt, it'll be interesting to see whom the public support during the strikes, particularly after, God forbid, any deaths attributable to absent physicians in hospitals. Personally, I think the militants in the BMA may be in for a rude awakening. The BMA recommended Hunt's previous proposals as a "good deal". The strikers are not motivated by patient safety imo, but money and politics. And all of them will earn handsomely during their careers as GP's, senior doctors and consultants - amounts far greater than an average worker. Professionals don't always earn megabuck in their first years of training but it pays well later.

Jury's out on Johnson.

 

Jury was obviously selected on the basis of limited intelligence then.

 

I've never been a great fan of Johnson. He's not a details man, and relies on capability of others around him. Perhaps his time as Mayor of London was reasonably successful for that reason, I don't know. But he has a formidable intellect and great charm when he cares to use it, and the EU ministers that were all baying for his blood after the referendum, now seem to be much more accepting of him. In France, the Gallic shrug and "Well, that's just Boris" has come into play. He also has pretty good European credentials, both in language skills and heritage. I'm increasingly impressed with Theresa May, and think her choice of Foreign Secretary may not be such a bad one, so long as she watches over him and keeps him on the rails.

 

? What have been their achievements over the last 10 weeks Goldie? Apart from putting a load of decisions off and not starting any brand new wars, I'm struggling to remember anything. But that may be my problem.

 

You're so right about the need for an effective opposition.

I was in hospital with a junior doctor this morning. I started the conversation once we'd finished discussing me. She wasn't interested in the money - what's on the table is more than enough for her - and knew very little about politics except for how it affected the NHS. Mind you, she was from another EU country. Her opinion was that the new contract wouldn't deliver what Mr Hunt says it will deliver - because there are no extra resources in the pipeline and no plan to put them there. Her opinion was the "seven day NHS" would not treat any more people than the existing NHS does until or unless everything else is put on the same footing - nurses, cleaners, x-ray/CT/MRI units, pathology, etc. She wondered who actually wanted a "seven day NHS" outside the obvious stuff that already happens, such as emergency units and in-patient care.

Just like the Apple/Ireland issue, there's a lot of unsubstantiated opinion and spin masquerading as fact flying around and it's hard to find out the truth. It's clear the government is now moving towards painting the doctors as greedy manipulators affecting patient safety to line their pockets.

One headline caught my eye this morning, though. The front page of the Daily Mail was questioning the right of the doctors to strike when only 30% or so of those who could have voted were for it. The rest were against or just didn't vote. I don't suppose the Mail could see the parallel between that and the referendum. I'm not trying to refight Brexit, so calm down. I'm just pointing out the double standard between accepting a result where less than 50% of the potential vote were for it when you agree with the result, and dissing it when you don't.

 

In the last 10 weeks, Parliament's been in recess, the whole world seems to have been on holiday apart from Assad who continues bombing his people, and GB athletes who have been racing around tracks. It starts now. Ask me in another 10 weeks, Stan.

 

My experience with 7 day NHS is different but doesn't just relate to junior doctors. My mum broke her ankle in Feb 2012. It was on a Saturday. She was taken to A&E by ambulance (having spent four hours stranded in her garden in minus temperatures). She was operated on, on Sunday night at about 9pm by a young, unsupervised surgeon who did a grossly inadequate job.

She was plastered up, spent 6 weeks hobbling around waiting for the plaster to come off, only to be asked by another consultant when finally the six weeks were up, what she wanted to use her ankle for. She said walking and driving, and was told the pins into the bone were inadequate for driving. The hospital were incredibly defensive.

I paid for my mother to see a consultant privately at another hospital - the experienced surgeon was very sympathetic, fitted my mum for an early morning op on the NHS - another 6 weeks wait and finally she had a usable ankle.

My advice - don't ever have an operation at a weekend if it can be avoided. Delay, transfer to another hospital if necessary to waste time, because the top people don't work at weekends - which is not good enough, and is something Hunt is trying to change.

Re the percentage of potential vote, we don't know the exact percentages because it was a secret ballot, but I think the point you make is a good one. If people don't vote when they're entitled to, then neither they nor anyone else can complain when a result comes in with a low percentage of the potential vote that doesn't suit them.

 

I'm sorry to hear about your Mums experience. Mistakes do happen in any walk of life, so I'm glad it worked out well in the end. From that, I'm going to assume you'd support a seven day NHS because it would reduce the chances of that happening to someone else due to more junior staff (albeit someone practicing orthopaedic surgery) being supervised by senior consultants that are also working weekend rotas. If that's not a good assumption, do put me right. Do you think Mr Hunt will be forcibly changing senior consultants contracts next, then? Perhaps if there was acknowledgement of that, junior doctors might feel more relaxed that accepting the new contract terms is just part of a bigger, hitherto unspoken, set of changes.

I'm suspicious of Mr Hunt at the moment. He has too many links to private health companies, as does his relative, Virginia Bottomley - who also used to be a Surrey MP, was once Health Minister and also has links to private health companies. I'd really like to know what his bigger picture is in specific terms, not just the unspecified platitudes he's telling us today. Where is he planning on taking the NHS and how will he do it?

 

I think there should be a 7 day NHS, at least for work ancillary to A&E, because people don't just get sick on weekdays. Senior staff and consultants must certainly be part of that change. Junior staff need guidance.

Don't know enough about Hunt's financial interests to comment. We'll should all watch him carefully. I see certain NHS trusts are postponing ops on patients that don't lose weight or stop smoking. We may see more of this and I have to say I can't fault it where obesity or smoking has relevance to the treatment

 

I spent several years in service redesign for hospitals. We can have a seven day a week all singing all dancing NHS, but not in the number of hospitals that currently have A&E, unless we put massive cash into the system and are prepared for some bits of it to be so infrequently used that those staffing it become de skilled. Services ancillary to A&E are basically all services, from diagnostics through to surgical and medical specialties, maternity and psychiatry.

 

If the NHS is open seven days a week the n it should be properly/fully staffed seven days a week
There is no reason to wait six weeks to get an MRI when it is going unused over night
Train more staff

 

The NHS is great!