We are all well aware of the terrific support our club enjoys, even in League 1 we pretty much sold out every week with attendances in excess of 24,000. Whenever this point is made to fans of other clubs the stock response is that there is no competition locally (other teams to watch) and that there is sod all else to do in Norfolk. This annoys me greatly, Norwich is a pretty small city and to achieve that kind of attendance is nothing short of excellent. Yes, there are no other teams very near, but there aren't really any other populated area's of note either. Yes there are towns like Dereham, Swaffham, Yarmouth wtc, but they are not exactly what you would call densley populated. Regarding the other argument, nothing else to do. What is it exactly that you can do in other places that you can't do here? What can you do in birmingham, Leeds or Manchester that you can't do in Norfolk? We should all be very proud of our loyal support. Don't listen to any excuses other fans might level at us. We are a massivley passionate bunch and I am very proud to be a canary.
kenny, as much as i agree that our attendances are excellent, it is true when people say there is no competition around. they don't necessarily mean other football sides - they mean rugby union, rugby league, cricket even. sheffield have ice hockey, etc. as a population, norwich is a small city - i think last time i heard it was about 180,000. but norfolk as a whole is closer to 1,000,000! norwich SHOULD be a much bigger club than it actually is when you take this into regard. we have absolutely massive potential. it wouldn't be beyond the realms of possibility, given a consistent top half premier league finish for a number of years, that many of the 'glory hunting' supporters that dominate our region when it comes to football may be more likely to switch allegiance to city. of course, many londoners in particular have moved to these parts and they are more than entitled to continue to support their club, but many have no ties and really should follow us. as it stands, i'd say we could fill a 35,000 seater stadium regularly in the premier league, but potentially, with big investment and the interest of many 'floating' supporters, we could do even better. its a place with massive potential for football. massive. and it annoys me when you hear about 'football hotbeds' such as the north east, that norwich doesn't get mentioned.
It has always been an unfair and rediculous comparrison over the years IMO There is plenty to do in Norfolk - The Coast (particularly Yarmouth) & the Broads are advertised as main attractions for starters. As for the catchment area an no other clubs! Bollocks. We have Ipswich just 40 miles south and in this day & age of better and easier transport there clearly is a choice. If you live in Downham Market you also have the choice going to Peterborough to be entertained and of course Cambridge & Ely to the south west but plenty of people from Thetford & beyond come to watch City. Our support has always been passionate but we have been lucky in as much as football has become more fashionable since the introduction of all seater stadiums (like it or not) and hooliganism has all but been eradicated from Carrow Road (and other places) and we have increased our following by perhaps 30% since the late 80's & early 90's when we were arguably at our peak!
very few of these other sports take place at the same time as football. Rugby Union only really applies to the south west (I know there are a couple of exceptions (London) but in general.) Rugby League is a summer sport now as is Cricket so they have minimal impact. I don't buy that there are 1,000,000 in Norfolk, if there is, then I cannot imagine where they live. If there are a million here, then that is still nothing compared to many of the larger cites in the UK (especially if you include their surrounding areas within a 40 mile radius). Agreed, there is potential to grow, that is what I find even more incredible.
In the first seaon on the premier league we were very successful but still we were gettin 14-16,000. As a club we have grown massively. I spent a year out of the country in 2001. When I left we were getting 12-14,000 for home games. When I returned, every game was a 20,000 sell out (prior to the Jarrold). This had a lot to do with the play-off final season.
Population of Norfolk in 2008 was estimated at 850,000. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norfolk thai, i cannot agree. yes there are places surrounding us, but none (apart from Ipswich - even that could be argued ) have a team capable of top flight football. manchester, london, birmingham etc - all these places have teams within a 20 minute drive of each other. you simply cannot say that we have any competition attracting football fans - thats why so many choose to support the big clubs rather than norwich.
Yes, Manchester, London, Birmingham all have 4 or 5 teams 'local' to them, but then their populations are more than 4 or 5 times greater than that of the whole of Norfolk, not just Norwich! EDIT: Just another thought, of that 850,000+, I would not mind betting that a larger proportion than the national average are 'outsiders'. People who have moved here from other areas of the country and therefore support other clubs anyway. Norfolk is the kind of place that people move to once they have made their money. I know that London is a magnet for people from all over, but it is unusual in that. Ther population there is so huge anyway it makes London irrelavent on this subject. Any club there should have huge support.
kenny, the reason our attendances grew so much in the late 90s was because of clever marketing. we attracted youngsters to watch city on a cheap, cheap (no pun intended) budget. season tickets for kids were incredibly cheap - they still are really. this was aimed at building our fanbase over the coming years. it worked... brilliantly! when you are a kid a go to watch football in the flesh, its very, very easy to get hooked. of course, some will stray and some will still be drawn to the 'glory' of following a big club, but so many of those youngsters stuck with city as their team. now, they are all adults, paying top dollar to watch city and their kids will follow city etc etc. and then there is the kids today, still receiving cheap tickets for games... and so the circle continues and the net widens and more and more get hooked. very few clubs did this and still don't - we are only going to get a bigger and bigger following!
no they aren't! manchester's population is around 600,000, birmingham similar. london is closer to 7,000,000 but there are so many teams!! if you imagine norwich are actually called norfolk, we have a bigger catchment area. its a fair thing to say, cos as i say, we have no direct competition.
But if you look at the stats from this link (page 19 particularly interesting) it's not how close you live to the team that makes for attendances http://www.premierleague.com/staticFiles/2f/6d/0,,12306~93487,00.pdf There are a shed load of factors to take into consideration and the size of your catchment doesn't mean you're going to fish well in it
Greater Manchester has a population of 2.6m according to Wiki. and with superior transport links you can bet that very few of those people live more than 30mins travel time from most of the clubs in the area (Man U, Man City, Oldham, Rochdale). I only live 14 miles from Carrow Road, Journey time 45mins (average). Anybody west of Fakenham is looking at well over an hour each way. Some simply don't bother for the reward of 90mins entertainment. There are local sides and with public transport being virtually non existant out here, you have to drive meaning you can't even have a pint. A lot see it as much better to go see the local side and have a beer. These issues are not as prevevant in the more urbanised areas of the country.
Interesting last point, Superman. The one about encouraging youngsters, the next generation of fans along by subsidising admission prices. I think it's called "speculate to accumulate". I remember having a 606 chat with some Col who fans about this - they have Essex Uni a few miles away, don't forget, so some form of student incentive would seem obvious to me. But in his wisdom, Mr Cowling rejected this out of hand, preferring to see less than 4,000 fans in a stadium designed to hold 10,000 ! The only way is Norwich, not Essex especially in terms of building for the future.
Super, sorry, I missed the post about kids tickets. Only just seen it. I agree, that has had a brilliant effect and boosted our club for the long term. The loyalty shown by these people when things were bad is my main point. We are not fickle fans like at many other clubs. We take the rough with the smooth.
in a strange way, you are illustrating my point kenny. the fact you mention how long it takes to get from fakenham to norwich only highlights how distant we are from other clubs.
i remember debating that too cromer. everybody sees things differently but for a small club such as colchester, who DO have a near-by competitor in ipswich, the past couple of years should have been a prime time for them to steal some fans from our suffolk foes. the binners have had a torrid spell during the past decade and colchester, i believe, are in one of their best positions in their history. cheap tickets, compared to those at the portaloo, would have enticed many more through the gates, especially kids and families. most people in colchester support ipswich so it would have been a good plan to 'hook' some of them. they've missed the boat now i expect through poor marketing.
It highlights how distant some of this so called 'potential' support is from our club. I think in reality, there are few people who will travel more than an hour each way to get to a game. I know there are some, but the potential of gaining support from that distance is much less likely. From some areas it would actually take less time to get to Leicester, Nottingham or Peterborough than it takes to get to Norwich even though the distance is greater.
but it also highlights how far away they are to an other team! it can be proclaimed either way to suit either argument!! from kings lynn, you are an hour from norwich (unless stuck behind a tractor) - you are further from leicester, nottingham. peterborough is closer (marginally) but if you are from norfolk, you are more likely to support norwich than head to the posh. the main point i'm making is that we have one of the biggest potential catchment areas in the country - we should have top notch support! if the ground was bigger, which i'm sure it will be soon enough if we manage to survive for two years in the premier league, then i reckon 35,000 is perfectly realistic as a regular gate, with potential for even more if possible. thats the same as spurs and west ham get - big, big clubs
Most of the time, it takes an hour to get from Kings Lynn to where I live near Dereham, it is then a further half hour+ into Norwich. I know the distances involved should make this journey quicker, but unless you travel in the middle of the night you are certain to be doing 50mph tops for most of the journey. Norwich fans will happily make that trip, but what we are talking about is attacting new fans. Somebody who has not been to see the club before is unlikely to make that kind of effort, 2.5 to 3 hours return jorney in the car for a 90 min game. Especially given the cost involved in ticket price, parking and most of all now, 20 to 30 quid in petrol! When it comes to Potential Catchment area, I don't think you can just say 'Norfolk'. Get a Compass and draw a cirle around Norwich of about 25 to 30 miles and that is probably more accurate. This means the 850,000 is probably reduced to about 550-600,000. Obviously, to the south it is a bit different as you can include places further affield on the trainline and the same goes for the line to peterborough but other than that, options are very limited for people who do not actually live in the city itself. I just think that to expect the club to be able to attract NEW support from people who have no previous ties to the club and live over an hour away is much less likely. Our catchment area in comparison to most clubs and taking into account other teams to watch locally is not massive when the effort it takes for most of the population to attend games is taken into account. That is why I see the fact that we sell out our ground and could easily fill 30-35,000 for most games (especially in the prem) to be such a terrific achievement. This certainly does not mean that there is no room for imporvement, you can always improve, simply that the arguments levelled at us by other fans when our superb support is quoted are not valid.
well i'd argue that to only get 25,000 out of 550-600,000 is not great but we could argue about it all day! what does matter is that we are very loyal to our club. i can't think of many clubs who would get 25,000 the week after getting battered 7-1 at home, especially not to play walsall...
