1. Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!

Off Topic The Politics Thread

Discussion in 'Queens Park Rangers' started by Stroller, Jun 25, 2015.

?

Should the UK remain a part of the EU or leave?

Poll closed Jun 24, 2016.
  1. Stay in

    56 vote(s)
    47.9%
  2. Get out

    61 vote(s)
    52.1%
  1. sb_73

    sb_73 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2012
    Messages:
    30,915
    Likes Received:
    28,945
    Many elderly people have had their income squeezed by low interest rates for years, partially offset by low inflation. Now we have even lower savings income with widely predicted rising inflation. People will get poorer as a result, everyone with savings relatively and for a (hopefully) few it will mean genuine hardship. I've made this point several times. It's not the end of the world but it is a decision based on disregard for people who have done what old fashioned Tories ask and looked after their own finances. The strategy on gilts increases risk for their savings as well.

    Believe what you like Chaz, the sun may possibly shine out of Mark Carney's maple leaf shaped arse, but he is a man who has talked about and then put off raising interest rates for years. Very low interest rates give us stagnant economies like Japan's has been for twenty years and like much of Europe's is now.
     
    #6001
    rangercol likes this.
  2. Stroller

    Stroller Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2013
    Messages:
    24,617
    Likes Received:
    24,028
    Carney has acted to try to avert a post-referendum (I nearly said post-Brexit) economic downturn, or even recession. We need spending, not saving. Somewhat doubtful whether it will have any significant effect, though. Some might say that the government should be doing the spending.
     
    #6002
  3. TootingExcess

    TootingExcess Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Messages:
    2,889
    Likes Received:
    1,062
    Yeah that's his plan, there's the risk of stagflation - but the Japanese tried to spend their way out of it with infrastructure builds on low borrowing rates. Which, as you say Strolls, is a Government decision not his.
     
    #6003
  4. sb_73

    sb_73 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2012
    Messages:
    30,915
    Likes Received:
    28,945
    I know why they have done it, I just doubt that people already in personal debt should be encouraged to rack up more. The consequences of these decisions are not academic. And it's daft not to combine monetary policy with economic policy, Hammond should have come out with a treasury package backing this up at the same time. Perhaps George was right, an emergency budget was needed.
     
    #6004
  5. TheBigDipper

    TheBigDipper Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2011
    Messages:
    857
    Likes Received:
    668
    To be fair to my example, it was actually hypothetical and I wasn't making an argument for anything. At the time we were all getting hung up on rates and percentages. I thought using actual cash values might help the discussion. It didn't.
     
    #6005
    sb_73 likes this.
  6. Stroller

    Stroller Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2013
    Messages:
    24,617
    Likes Received:
    24,028
    I don't think it's so much about personal debt, more about companies borrowing to invest. As I said, something the government should consider.
     
    #6006

  7. TheBigDipper

    TheBigDipper Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2011
    Messages:
    857
    Likes Received:
    668
    Carney has done the best he can with the instruments at his disposal. It's the governments job to work out what else needs doing.

    Seems to me that reducing the cost of borrowing and increasing the amount of money in the system may not be enough for private businesses to increase investment to kickstart things. I don't see the confidence out there in business land until we resolve the dreaded B-word. What will ordinary people paying mortgages do with the extra £20-30/month they get from any rate cut? How does it help people who don't have mortgages?

    Government-led capital investment projects to deliver infrastructure that we need today, like housing, seems an obvious thing to do - but the Conservatives don't want there to be a public housing sector, it seems.

    Anyone got any ideas?
     
    #6007
  8. sb_73

    sb_73 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2012
    Messages:
    30,915
    Likes Received:
    28,945
    How about some old style Keynesian economics?
     
    #6008
  9. Stroller

    Stroller Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2013
    Messages:
    24,617
    Likes Received:
    24,028
    That's what I was saying.
     
    #6009
  10. sb_73

    sb_73 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2012
    Messages:
    30,915
    Likes Received:
    28,945
    I know mate. This monetarist fiddling won't help much and we've had a fundamentally (though thankfully not fully) monetarist approach since 1979.
     
    #6010
    Stroller likes this.
  11. durbar2003

    durbar2003 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2013
    Messages:
    4,828
    Likes Received:
    2,394
    I don't think followin Kenyas monetary policy is the way to go! ;-)
     
    #6011
  12. sb_73

    sb_73 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2012
    Messages:
    30,915
    Likes Received:
    28,945
    Blackpool and Brighton and Hove Albion among 198 firms called out for failing to pay minimum wage to some workers. ****ers.

    Let's see what the Football League does about that, given that we will be punished for paying people too much.
     
    #6012
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2016
  13. Uber_Hoop

    Uber_Hoop Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2011
    Messages:
    18,613
    Likes Received:
    28,533
    What, this bloke?
    image.jpeg
     
    #6013
    rangercol likes this.
  14. sb_73

    sb_73 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2012
    Messages:
    30,915
    Likes Received:
    28,945
    The Moons a Balloon mate.

    Dave Nellist, Derek Hatton and Peter Taafe all hoping to rejoin Labour if Corbyn is re-elected leaderette. Thus neatly proving Tom Watson's point.
     
    #6014
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2016
  15. sb_73

    sb_73 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2012
    Messages:
    30,915
    Likes Received:
    28,945
    FTSE 100 firms share prices, overall, have performed very well since Brexit. However their collective pension fund deficits have risen by over 150% to £63bn over twelve months, with £17bn of this happening since Brexit. Major cause the collapse in income from bonds, encouraged by the interest rate cut. But the fund managers should have been able to cover this through increased value of foreign assets (of course it doesn't help the British economy if they invest overseas) due to the (increasingly) weak £. Clearly they are not very good fund managers.
     
    #6015
  16. Chaz

    Chaz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2014
    Messages:
    1,523
    Likes Received:
    777
    The EU Exit has not been triggered, so in effect, the only thing that has so far changed is a slight lessening in uncertainty. Ally this to the Government's declared position - that they will not trigger the exit until the details are all clear - this leads to more confidence and more certainty from the markets than we would have if the people clamouring to trigger Article 50 immediately were listened to.

    The fact that the FTSE is doing well is more down to our response and approach post-referendum than anything else, imo. It breeds confidence that a rush to leave the EU would destroy.
     
    #6016
  17. sb_73

    sb_73 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2012
    Messages:
    30,915
    Likes Received:
    28,945
    The FTSE is doing well because the majority of FTSE companies' profits are made outside the UK, so the fall in sterling has increased their income. In my opinion. What the government has offered so far is nothing, though they may be saying something to business leaders. We physically can't start the Brexit process because we do not have the staff to do it. Interesting side effect of Brexit, we have to build two new bureaucracies in Trade and Brexit departments to escape the bureaucracy in Brussels. I'm enjoying the bitch fest between 'Dr' Fox and Johnson though.
     
    #6017
  18. Chaz

    Chaz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2014
    Messages:
    1,523
    Likes Received:
    777
    Not as much as I'm enjoying the hilarious debacle that is today's Labour Party.
     
    #6018
  19. loomo

    loomo Active Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2011
    Messages:
    413
    Likes Received:
    76
    The problem the pension actuaries and trustees have is that they have always been over exposed to bonds/gilts because since they changed how the deficits are calculated they have set strategies to meet the deficit over a period of 10 -15 with added funding. This was perceived as a safer route but in fact they have missed out on real returns. its not the fund managers its the pensions Trustees
     
    #6019
    sb_73 likes this.
  20. sb_73

    sb_73 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2012
    Messages:
    30,915
    Likes Received:
    28,945
    Cheers Loomo, I didn't realise that.
     
    #6020
    durbar2003 likes this.

Share This Page