I don't buy that as much as the "more money" thing. We've shown better progress than any other club. We tell the players this and our plans when they sign. Facts show that we have been successful in that plan and therefore it would be fair to deduce that there'd be a good chance of starting to win something... Until the players get more dosh waved at them
I agree, although I don't think the club have chosen to sell our best players. They've all forced a move to some degree rather than take a look at how well our planned progress has been going. Greed.
I know why I don't own a football club (well I'm also a few million short). I would say screw you, play in the reserves if you upset me. Within 2-3 years no one would sign for us and we'd be bankrupt. See it is tricky owning a club
Reading the two examples you have given above, I instantly see "money" as the answer. As for being a feeder club, haven't we really always been one? Aren't most clubs and us just a bit more than others?
I remember the dick head leader ( can't remember his name) of the PFA on Sky Sports, talking about the ways they can help players to void contracts etc. I haven't a clue if it has happened, but I guess the PFA guy threatening it is enough.
I would say either the latter or a mixture of both. And personally, I don't mind, if it gets the high levels of performance we've seen the last two seasons. I think Mane was doing it purely for himself, and that served us well. Jose I think is on the other end of the scale. I personally don't think he will be going, though - it just isn't being heavily enough reported in mainstream places, and he isn't likely to fit in anywhere like he does here. I can only suspect he may have been told something at Saints that has pissed him off. I'm not sure what exactly the purpose of the agitating is, though, as it must be coming from his agent.
You have to see that in context, though - it just means we can ask more for one of them when one of the big boys comes in for eg. VVD one year into his six year contract. Saints don't hold players to contracts - that is a fact. Its better than no contract, but in the greater scheme, it doesn't do much more.
Games like Sunday's game between Arsenal and Liverpool are great for our stature in the game. Some of the best talented young players come to us currently because we are the best 'finishing school' to the land of $$$$ and trophies. Sure, it gets slightly harder for us each season to keep improving, but as we keep providing these players for some of the lazier big clubs in the league, our reputation and stature for this becomes even better known. As that stature becomes even more solid, we become able to attract a gradually higher level of talent than the crop before, which means the ones we do retain a little longer (e.g. Tadic) are of a slightly better quality than their predecessors (Lallana), which then results in better performances and higher league positions. Rinse and repeat. As Onionman said earlier, our strategy regards recruitment and retention seems to have a lot of similarities to Olympic Lyonnais in the late 90's to mid naughties. It's difficult mentally, but keep the faith. If we sign a couple of exciting attacking midfielders and a CB (or two) before the window closes then we'll be sorted. Sure it's a pain not having ALL the signings in earlier, but who does this season? The big transfers with the top clubs dictate the speed of everything because until say Pogba signs for Man U, there's a whole list of alternatives who don't move just incase that deal falls through and they get their golden ticket opportunity. Once that deal completes, these alternatives suddenly become available after it's confirmed that their options have narrowed. Hopefully we're getting a lot closer to this stage with 18 days to go where our targets are having their expectations moved more in line with reality.
You forgot Villa. I think some of those clubs are trying out a new approach. They sink so low and plummet so fast that they eventually come back out at the top of the Premiership. It's like serious deep sea exploration a la The Abyss. We know that League Two can just about sustain life, and some explorers have found signs of single cell-type life down there pottering around in blue jobsite.co.uk shirts. But no one really knows what goes on below that, but believe it eventually pops out back where it all began - some of these brave teams are going to give that a try over the next decade by the look of it.
I believe we will win something, and so do you. But a player who believes he has five years to achieve something is less likely to. In some ways, Leicester winning the PL has made it less likely for the rest of us, as its awoken the sleeping giants. So we are unlikely to be able to keep high performers from the top end of the pitch beyond two years. That doesn't mean I don't believe in it, though. Leicester did it in two years, of course (I know it seems like one, but it was really two).
TBH I don't listen to any player speaking and believe a word of it anymore. Same with the Olympics or any other sportsperson in the modern world. These days the media are obsessed with interviews and what do we get? The same media trained athletes uttering the same things as each other. Jose is no different and Man Utd have not had a leader in their defence for a long time so I can quite see why Mourinho would draft in a proven leader for the short term (2 seasons) at a relatively cheap price for them (£12m+) to get him through his first and maybe second season while they weigh up who to put in after. People here are thinking Fonte would be backup when he quite clearly would be first choice short term defensive leader. He showed what he brings when he came into the Portugal squad on the biggest stage available this summer. I find it laughable people on this thread saying "he isn't the best defender when quite clearly what he brings to the teams he plays for "Southampton, Portugal" when he is there is proven. You can argue all day about that advantage not being actual footballing skills and more talismanic or morale and leadership but both for Saints and Portugal he has shown he improves the defence of 2 teams playing at the highest level on the biggest stages in the world. He would improve Man Utds defence however short term it would be and even if we got £15m for him for Man Utd they would be happy with one year of top performance for that. £15m to them is not £15m to us. They will not be worried about resale value or longevity for that kind of money if it shores up their defence for a season (or hopefully for them 2) and buys them time to find a long term replacement.
...and one final word from me as I'm in a real rant mode. It comes to something that I get more likes on a negative rant on this thread than I do on my 8th straight unbeaten match thread.....
We are talking Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal, Tottenham......Whether Saints fans like it or not these are all much much bigger clubs than us AND much more likely to win trophies than Saints and yes they do pay more however like I said in my last post I find it laughable that people think that Fonte who has been a top performer in 4 PL seasons running and showed he is a great leader of a defence which was then confirmed by his performances in a national team that played a stifling defensive game and WON the European championships would be thought of as backup. He would be first choice. I don't have any gripes if Fonte wants the move. I would be disappointed but all the negativity and vitriol on here is ridiculous. Jose owes us Loyalty? For what? Giving him the opportunity to play at the highest level? Did we offer him that or did he help provide that by joining us? Even Stevens there IMO. Without players like Fonte we wouldn't be where we are now so all this about him owing us is way off the mark. The guy dropped a division to play for us. What did we do for him personally? I mean something he didn't have a hand in? Ahh yes we gave him better contracts...........and what does that mean? We paid him what most other clubs of our size/league finish are paying players of his calibre. So yes I will be disappointed......very disappointed but I won't be that ranting about moving for money if he chooses to move and play for the world's biggest club rather than us and I won't be blaming some perceived culture at the club either. The club are punching well above their weight and are virtually powerless to stop this sort of thing happening. If a player gets the chance to play for one of the world's biggest clubs with more chance of silverware (and that includes Spurs and Liverpool unfortunately) then there is not a lot we can do. I said it before all this spin about refusing to sell Schneiderlin and forcing him to stay. It is very easy to put that spin on things when the only offer that comes in is £10m. If it had been a higher bid in the region of Man Us then it would have been very hard to explain away to the player and Schneiderlin would probably have had a stinker of a season. Same with Wanyama. What was the bid that came in for him the season before he left? If one of our players goes to a smaller club than us or even a club only slightly bigger like West Ham because the wages offered are higher then yes it is all about the money but in this instance like all the others Fonte will be moving to a bigger club that has more chance of success and he will be very much a first choice player however short term that plan is. You don't go from where he was last season (and the prior 3) with us to coming into a national side during a tournament and drastically improving their defence to not good enough to play for Man Utd. He will be their first choice this season if they buy him.
Come FLT What has changed in the last 8 weeks? A big club has shown interest in him that is what has happened. That has never happened before and while Cardiffs and Hull are the ones interested then he can quite clearly dismiss transfer rumours. There's a big difference.
I think they do buy into our ambition but at the time we sign them we are their "best suitors." Much as we like to make fun of Liverpool they are much more likely to string a title winning season together even if it is a one off than we are and when they or Man U or Tottenham or Arsenal come calling a player will want the move to the bigger club. It isn't not believing our ambition but realistically our ambition will be much longer term to achieve than the big clubs. For the foreseeable future they are all in a much better position to achieve those ambitions in a shorter timeframe than us. I think people need to get some perspective here. We have ambitions and we are proving that we can improve year on year but just as Leicester have suffered (and we have already said on here they'll struggle to be top 6 this year) their players (and Vardy may still move who knows) are jumping at the better opportunity as they see it. Yes they will earn more money but at the end of the day they are moving to clubs that have a better chance than us of success. Doesn't mean those clubs will finish ahead of us because this is sport but on paper they do have the better chance and we confound the "paper" by beating others that should be higher up. How many players have demanded moves from Chelsea because of their season last? Answer is none because they know that despite Chelsea's performance last season they still (on paper) have a better chance than teams like Southampton.
Longer contracts mean that if we are in a position where we have to sell because the player is making waves then we can withstand cheap offers such as in the case of Schneiderlin. Nothing more than that. It just means that we stay in a position where we don't lose our players to small bids like in Wanyama and clyne's case. In a way it is to hold on to them for longer because the higher price will make it less likely that we will receive bids but even for someone like Davis, if we assumed that no-one would want him so we don't need to extend we could end up with the Hammers or someone bidding a few million with a year left and making it known to his agent the wages would be higher and Davis would be thinking "Well Saints obvs don't want me because they haven't extended my contract."
The potential for PFA reprisal is certainly part of it. But even if you prevail over the PFA in a partcular, it's hardly going to make other players want to sign for you. It divides your fanbase with some supporting the player and others the club, and mostly a lot of people just angry it has come to this which is negative as well. And for what? So you can overpay a guy to not play? When another team is happy to take him off your hands and alleviate the whole situation? It doesn't make sense.
It is to do with preventing someone from doing their job. If you refuse to let a player play because they want to leave then you are preventing them from doing their job. I don't think there has been a precedent set yet where a player has taken a club to court but I could see the player easily winning especially if they are a player in Fonte's position of being first on the team sheet each week and quite obviously being prevented from playing.
IMO, this is a false dichotomy. Obviously, Fonte has made things difficult and is being a bit of a jerk. At the same time, players do this. It's the Board's job handle it. If they aren't prepared to find solutions to players being greedy, they re in the wrong job. For me I don't care who is morally at fault. Just want it handled to the best advantage of the club. It's not easy because yes, players are greedy and we don't have as much money as others. But the board aren't helpless either. It was known that Fonte was playing in Euro. And that a good Euro would increase his value. So maybe we should have acted quicker. It's also possible that he believes if he's as important to the club as we say, then why did everyone else get their extensions done first? Maybe the extension we are offering him now is one that he would have happily signed instantly when the season ended, but we offered him a smaller one first and then he saw what others are getting, and now he feels like he's only begrudgingly getting a deal and not fully appreciated. Maybe really, it does come down to the fact that while he would have turned down Everton he feels a bond of trust was broken because he wasn't notified. And in most if not all of those cases, I would feel like Fonte is being a bit unreasonable. But it is what it is, and the fact is (if any of the above are true) that the board could have prevented this. Personally, I'm not that attached to guys and have already taken a licking on that other thread for my "every player has a price, play hardball and let them go if they want" attitude. So I'm not particularly annoyed or disillusioned by the Fonte situation. But that doesn't mean that fair questions can't be asked about whether the board could have handled things differently. And to me, by and large most of the questions being asked have been fair, despite my disagreement with them.
