Off Topic Impact of Brexit on Football

No ones burying their heads in the sand, most Brexiters I know realise there's a cost in leaving i.e. a short term economic downturn, they're just willing to pay it. Thing is and this may come as a shock, but life isn't all about money and how much you have.

 

So you are finally admitting there is an economic downturn. Well that is good to know.

Fascinating that you still seem to think you know that it will be "short" and that the cost is worth it. It is remarkable that you have this gift of foresight that allows you to know these things. Presumably you also know that this "short term" damage we will comfortably recover and put ourselves ahead of where we would have been if we had not inflicted this "short term" damage (which was totally worth it (worth what? ED))

Once again you complete invent something I never said. It's not the threat of loss of money. It's the threat to a whole generation's livelihoods, jobs and well-being. It's a threat to employment rights (no surprise people like KIO are against these), a threat to justice, a threat to equality, a threat to global security. Just because a whole load of baby-boomers want to pull the ladder up from under them and they have managed to get the racist bunch on side.

 

So you don't think long term we will be worse off, but you have complete faith in all the experts, none of which saw the crash in 2008 coming.

Brexit is about a lot more than just the economy & immigration. You might think all other arguements are complete red herrings, but I and many others don't. I wouldn't say we discussed them I told you some of the things other than the economy & immigration that I thought were important. You in your normal way totally dismissed them, I suspect either because you didn't understand them or they didn't fit your agenda. That's not a discussion.

 

More complete falsehoods from the Leave campaign that you have swallowed unquestioningly. It is remarkable.

I don't think they are red herrings. I know they are. I explained in detail why earlier in the thread. But by all means we can discuss them now if you like.

Tell me about sovereignty and democracy and why you think we would be better off out of the EU in these respects. I am not being flippant, I genuinely want to know why you think these are valid arguments.

 

Whilst I agree that in the short term and very probably the long term we will likely be less well off financially. The long term gain culturally and in quality of living in the country are not so easily measured. In terms of long term I would say it could be an ongoing gain for the rest of this and european nations existence if the warnings are heeded and the EU is reformed/dismantled to return more to it's original free trade zone without all the meddling.
I don't see how on earth you can say that the U40 generation being worse off than their parents is down to Brexit, or at least Brexit alone. This has been coming for some time, and the crash in 2007/8 has played a vastly bigger role than Brexit. Add to that the stealing of peoples pensions, increased decimation of our manufacturing base and all industry outside of services and brexit looks like a very tiny pebble tossed in a sea of sh#t that was set to overflow anyway. Our politicians and the increasing competition from a developing world far more prevalent in my opinion.

Bah!

 

To clarify, I didn't say that it was down to Brexit alone - I was meaning that this is another example. With the pensions, you have to remember that these have the triple lock all paid for by the young - the baby boomers have had cradle to grave government support and yet they want to remove it all to protect their pensions...

 

I was more talking about Brown's tax raid having damaged all pensions having the knockon effect that we have all moved from final salary schemes to defined contribution. I think the pensions of those lucky enough to have been part of that FS pension period will be forever the most well off, they will never be affordable again. Brexit again cannot be blamed for the fact BB had cradle to grave government support and the next generation will not. This is local government policy not Brexit. (Ironically you have quite rightly blamed a lot of the ills that led to Brexit on our own useless lying government and now you're trying the reverse!)

Bah!

 

Where am I reversing? I blame the government and those that elected it for it all.

The defined benefit schemes are the most ludicrously beneficial and ruinous schemes anyway - it's just about the main thing Brown got right. DB schemes are ticking bombs.

 

One other thing. Whilst I realise that with the country mortgaged up to the hilt that there is in fact no money to pay the pensions, those BB (Well most of them)have actually paid their dues for those pensions. But it's all a bloomin great ponzi scheme that will collapse when we stop expanding the population at the required rate.

Bah!

 

Blimey and you moan about others misrepresenting you. I NEVER said there wouldn't be a short term negative effect on the economy, indeed I never said that there wouldn't be a medium term negative effect on the economy. If I did perhaps you could highlight the post for me were I said Brexit would not have any effect on the economy.

Once again you complete invent something I never said. It's not the threat of loss of money. It's the threat to a whole generation's livelihoods, jobs and well-being. It's a threat to employment rights (no surprise people like KIO are against these), a threat to justice, a threat to equality, a threat to global security. Just because a whole load of baby-boomers want to pull the ladder up from under them and they have managed to get the racist bunch on side.[/QUOTE]

I don't think my comment attributes any comments to you. Please explain where I quoted you as saying something you never said.

 

No they didnt'. They didn't contribute to the DB schemes at all. You need to have put in c. 18% of your salary over your entire lifetime to have the sort of benefit an average DB scheme gives via a DC scheme. BBs definitely never put in anywhere near 18%.

 

You've spent most of this thread telling me that despite all the facts, statistics, reports, opinions and market sentiment I've given you etc that there haven't been any negative impacts on the economy! Now you're claiming you've never denied it! You could not make this stuff up. Astonishing.

Well if you didn't mean to imply that I was only interested in money, why did you make such a totally irrelevant lecturing comment in response to me?

 

You appeared to be saying that brexit was responsible for the U40's being worse off than their parents when it mearly may have hastened it over the line, the last drip in the pint that sends it over the rim.
DB schemes were generally affordable at least in principle before the tax changes. The increased life expectancy in retirement may have seen to it otherwise but generally I agree they certainly look ridiculously over indulgent and would have been a huge chain around the neck of UK industry had they continued.

Bah!

 

sorry if it read like that - as I said what I meant was it was another example of why as we've already discussed.

Yep, life expectancy and actuaries realising they've been getting it wrong has been the big killer

 

Of course lets re write history. All the experts that claim that predict Brexit is going to be a complete diaster saw the 2007/8 crash coming and were shouting from the treetops about it. How could it have slipped my mind all the dire warnings in the news about the impending crash before it happend.

Well of course if you've decided they're red herrings then they must be. This may be another surprise to you, but I voted on the bases of my knowledge, experience and faith in the future. Of course if you've explained in detail why they are red herrings then they must be. After all you are the font of all knowledge and the only one that has a valid opinion. With that sort of attitude you may well grow up to be an unelected employee of the EU. Then you can tell us all what we should and shouldn't think / do.

 

Didn't they? If I take a job that pays X and has Y benefits. Then the company I work for pays me X and puts Y away for the rainy day. I know this is the public sector argument but. If I had taken less Y I could have had more X somewhere else. The truth I believe is that the companies as required by law were putting money away for those pensions (whether it was enough with increased life expectancy is another question) be that 18% it doesn't change the fact, they were employed to do a role that paid a salary and benefits defined in that role.

This is however is something of a diversion from the Brexit mudslingathon, so I won't further distract you from your jousting with Carrow.

bah!

 

My god you can't help but be disingenuous can you? You claim "none" of the experts predicted the 2008 crash and then when I point out that this is a blatant lie you think that means "all the experts... that predict Brexit is going to be a complete disaster saw the 2007/8 crash coming".

If you had an ounce of intellectual honesty we might actually get somewhere, but you seem intent on twisting everything, moving the goal posts and outright lying.

I offered you the opportunity to put forward your case. It is astonishing that when I do, you throw your toys out the pram. Is that because you know they are actually red herrings?

"Unelected" suggests I can see where this one is going... But no doubt you'd rather hide behind the lies spouted by Leave than actually offer up what basis you have "faith".

 

That's the problem - they were not putting the money away for those pensions. And neither were the employees.

You said the BBs had paid for their defined benefits - they actually didn't, directly or indirectly.

I enjoy the jousts with Canario tbh. He at least has the balls to respond, the passion to actually show his hand and the good taste not to go around suggesting that lawyers should be murdered...

 

Well if you've explained it then !!!! Interestingly both the FTSE250 & 350 are well up on what they were in September 2015

 

Erm, the FTSE250 is more or less exactly where it was in September 2015 (today 17,000 almost exactly - Sep 2015 high 17,150 and low 16,600)... As I said, it's on a clear downward trajectory (rather than taking individual peaks and troughs) since precisely the time of the election. Normally a majority government would help keep it buoyant, but most market commentators agree that Brexit uncertainty since the government announced they would hold the referendum is largely the culprit.

http://www.londonstockexchange.com/...ndices/summary/summary-indices.html?index=MCX

You do realise that the FTSE350 is a combination of the FTSE100 and the FTSE250, right? So if the FTSE100 is up, then it's like the FTSE350 is doing well too given the value skew...