The EU debate - Part II

so from the look at those charts, Labour were neck and neck in Mar16 against the Tories. Then Corbyn gets stabbed in the back and they are currently hemorrhaging votes?

 

His manifesto is costed and is actually backed by some leading economists if you want to look at his manifesto. There's massive evidence that austerity inhibits growth, while what you should be doing in a recession is creating large scale public sector building projects as this stimulates the market, creates demand and employs people - it is also cheaper for the Government to do it in a recession as the interest rates are low and so any borrowing is cheaper, you are also growing the market and giving people jobs (rather than paying them welfare to sit at home).

We are paying more for the privatised rail networks but getting none of the profit, so another saving would be the gradual nationalisation of the railways. Same for the privatised parts of the NHS.

You shouldn't be so dismiss of his policies without looking into them.

 

Yes that's my point - 80% of the PLP (around 15% of them have interests in companies involved in nuclear weapons) - that is only 172 people. A minimum of hundreds of thousands want him to stay and are willing to pay up to £25 to vote for him to stay, judging by peoples pledges. They are willing to turn up in their tens of thousands to support him up and down the country - support unknown for a political leader.

But of course, lets have another Tory-Lite Angela Eagle/Hilary Benn/Milliband/Liz Kendall/Yvette Cooper figure lead us, because that has gone down so well for the last 6 years hasn't it? They've shown such raving popularity that people are literally clamouring down the door to be inspired by them!

 

Five months after losing the 1992 election, Labour were Ahead in the opinion polls. Seven months after the 2010 election, they were in the lead. Just one month after the 1979 loss, they were back in the lead. So, it's normal to see the losing party gaining ground or overtaking the incumbent Gvt in the polls.

Since the 2015 election, no poll has ever shown Labour as the top party.

 

They basically laid down in the road and allowed the Tories to dictate and control the narrative - ie anyone on Welfare was a scrounger and you need to inform on any poor person on Welfare that you feel may be 'faking' (a poster they used at that time). Hardly a great position to use for a party supposedly of the 'working class'.

But I suppose you think it worked out much better than Corbyn's approach, which was to tackle them head on, force them into some embarrassing retreats and change the narrative of the whole argument.

 

Try reading it again love.

By the 26th June - before the MP's gave Corbyn the no confidence vote, they'd slid back 4% and UKIP and the Tories had been the beneficiaries

 

It's 80% of his own PLP! Whichever way you spin it.

If he can't even command the support of his own party, what does that say to the average 'undecided' voter out there? And 'undecided' tends to be the decider in a lot of elections.

 

This ^ is the salient point. I find it astonishing that some can't acknowledge it.

 

When did this happen like?

 

The Anti Corbyn grouping have also urged people to sign up. Let's see what side ythe £183k are on after the vote.

 

Smith is as left wing as Corbyn. Which is why he got the nod over Eagle. He does support Trident, but there has been a long tradition of that on the left. Bevan made the famous comment about not going naked into negotiations in the 50s.

 

I'm going out on a limb here and suggesting you don't agree?

 

I guess you missed the Government's comedown on PIP's & Tax Cuts that was originally a major part of Osborne's budget before he had to backtrack and change it not long after the announcement.
You may not have noticed the Government dropping the 'Fit to Work' scheme after pressure from Corbyn and being taken to the ECHR court for human rights violations.
The close relationship with Saudi Arabia Cameron had developed - Corbyn forced them to abandon it after pointing out the Saudi's atrocious Human Rights record and their role in the Yemen conflict.
Corbyn has also helped protect the police from some of the more savage cuts the Tories wanted to enact.

These are just some of the backdowns. There are more.

 

The Govt dropped that scheme because it was boycotted by 500 charities, and so became unworkable. It had **** all to do with Corbyn.

 

You are very perceptive

I just find saying that a former Pfizer lobbyist who advocated for the privatisation of the NHS, who says he is pro-austerity and abstained against the Welfare Bill is as left wing as someone who has fought apartheid, racism, and for equality for over 40 years, has and is supporting industrial workers and their workers rights, and who wants to nationalise essential services a little bit funny.

 

mmmm

 

180,000 new Labour members thought they were getting Beyonce tickets

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/...y-were-getting-beyonce-tickets-20160721111192

 

The apartheid thing is unfair, given their relative ages - he was 18 when Mandela was released and 20 when apartheid fell. Pro-austerity is definitely wrong and pro-privatisation is absolutely denied by him. Can I, in a comradely fashion, advise you to keep more of an open mind on him. The election is just starting. If he is a bullshitter, it will come out and I, like last time, will vote Corbyn. Smith is pretty much unknown, I don't know much about him at all, but he is placing himself as a presentable/electable version of Corbyn, which appeals to me. I will be listening closely over the next few weeks to see if he is up to it.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36834096

 

Which policies are they then? Examples please.

Politics in the real world is all about compromise; it's the art of the possible. Which is why the doctrinaire student politics of Corbyn is fine in a protest movement but useless in the leadership of a party who would like to govern.

Furthermore, the absolute conviction of idealists who refuse to accept they are anything other than 100% right on %100 of the issues, is pretty sinister. It's what the far left has in common with fascism (that and a tendency to conspiracy theories and anti-semitism).