Off Topic EU deabte. Which way are you voting ?

People from Europe could still come and work here , they will just need to get a visa, that's all. We don't want to completely cut off immigration, you know. As much as it suits your argument.

 

Nobody is saying it's a one way street, that's a gross over-simplification. Both the EU and the UK want to trade with each other. But the weight of trade is in the EU's favour if we want access to the single market.

 

Some on the Remain side have been in the EU for so long they don't seem to remember what things were like before we joined the EU or what it is like outside the EU.
They seem to think that there is no trade outside the EU and that the only things worth buying are in the rest of the EU and the EU doesn't want to buy anything outside the EU.
It's a totally different and sensible world out there.

 

In what way?

 

To give you one example. Before EU free movement, food processing and packaging companies had to apply for a quota of European workers to work in the UK. It was a costly and convoluted process and the costs were passed onto UK consumers. If the UK went back to this system now, expect to see food prices rise.

 

As in we buy more from them than they do from us.

 

Why do we need European workers to work in the UK in low skilled jobs. What about all the UK unemployed people?

 

That's a strange way of looking at it. Everybody else thinks that that makes it in OUR favour. They want to sell to us. We could always buy from the rest of the world. What is it that we desperately need from the EU and only the EU?

 

I'm given to believe that extracting the micturation from Johnny Foreigner is frightfully taboo at the moment.

So, it would be appreciated if you chaps would desist....

 

I agree it would be good to get the unemployed into these jobs. I was listening to a prog on Radio 4 where the food manufacturers were saying that they use Polish, Latvian and Hungarian workers because they are willing to do the jobs and they do them well for a modest wage, that comparatively is a large wage compared to what they would earn in their native countries. The manufactures were saying that they would probably have to raise the wages to attract UK workers. But I do agree that there is an argument to tighten benefits for the long term unemployed where there are jobs available for them to do.

 

I agree with everything you said.

 

You could look at sourcing all of those goods and services from elsewhere in the world, but that's a hugely convoluted process and would raise practicality and efficiency issues and likely extra costs for UK businesses. I doubt there's any appetite to go down that route.

 

I would hazard a guess you've mentioned something someone has said from the EU to support an argument even if it's not this one. But if you haven't then fair enough. I just don't like it when ppl cherry pick that's all.

As for the rest, well I asked the question about being part of the common market and its conditions. I began by asking the question, do we want to be part of it which you seem to have forgotten. Correct me if I'm wrong but the countries outside the EU that you've mentioned aren't part of the common market so those conditions of free movement aren't applicable on their trade deals. If we want to trade on a similar basis then fair enough but like I said, I was asking about wanting to be part of the common market.

I also dont want to get into this bollox about 700m coming over and using the NHS and flooding our schools. I never mentioned that and my point was addressing something else.

 

We sell 45% of our exports to the EU countries. The EU countries sell 14% of their exports to the UK. That means that they sell 86% of their exports to the rest of the world on the same terms that we can only sell 55% of ours. That would indicate a) that we do not produce enough that the rest of the world requires or b)they don't want what we can sell. If we can only sell that much on equal terms how will we increase that on almost certainly worse terms.

 

It was an uneven playing field for British workers, some jobs being done are not for modest wages, but are still large wages as you said in their native countries add to that some jobs were purposely targeting migrant workers, it was not that British workers would not do some of those jobs, that is a misperception created by the media, some of those jobs were advertised abroad, it was only the public facing jobs that were offered to British workers, any Brits that went for the employed migrant jobs were not even given an interview, and British field workers were laid off and replaced by migrant workers. The only area I can think of that migrant workers actually deserved the role more than their British counterparts was in catering but then again when you look at the hours and wage involved, it was more enticing for migrant workers.

 

Buying goods and services is "hugely convoluted"? Why do companies use call centres in Asia when there's plenty of call centres nearer? There certainly seems an appetite to go down that route. I don't think you are giving businesses enough credit for being able to do relatively straightforward activities. If consumers want to buy cars from outside the EU rather than Germany they dont have to go hunting around for individual cars. A business will buy thousands of cars, ship them over and sell them to retailers. It might be a shocking prospect to you but plenty of businesses do this sort of thing all the tiume.

 

This is a big problem. You should discuss based on reality rather than on something that supports your argument but is simply not true.

 

So why don't we trade on the same basis as these countries? That is what we are wanting to do.

 

I did ask that very question in my original post and the one you've just quoted as well but you seem to be missing it in your haste to respond

I've not said we must join the common market, I've asked the question whether we should or if we want to. At the risk of upsetting you, I think you need to follow your own advice in your previous post

 

But that is what you were talking about. Free movement - you mentioned it above. I'm pointing out that there is absolutely no sense in expecting countries outside the EU to accept free movement. The EU seems to have an obsession with it and doesn't seem to care that it results in people from poorer countries moving to richer countries. What is the logic of encouraging that?