Off Topic EU deabte. Which way are you voting ?

And the end of Labour, so the Tories will have no credible opposition until UKIP gain seats

 

Well put, mate. And I respect your argument even though I still disagree with you.

In my view, the Labour Party is fractured. I also believe that with Corbyn at the helm those fractures will never be healed. In fact they will widen.

My view remains that for the good of the party he should step aside for somebody who has a chance of bringing together the warring factions.

And, I maintain my view that his support base amongst the general electorate is far to narrow to win a GE.

You can have all the good intentions and principles in the world, as a politician. But, if you are not in power you cannot implement your policies.,

 

Don't you ever get tired of this ****, Custard?...

 

Rather like the EU, the remain voters don't believe in democracy. Oh no, they are much happier slagging off the elderly for their right to vote for the leave campaign. They won't accept the result and are campaigning for another referendum.

They also claim to be the intelligent voters

 

No ,as I know is upsets the Inners

 

Corbyn is not a person who looks to lead MPs. He prefers to stand in front of a crowd of people who have very little power. He doesn't care what the MPs think of him he will be adored when he goes to meetings and that's all he's bothered about. He sees no reason to stand aside.

 

Farage is an absolute legend and without doubt, the best politician in my lifetime.

 

Fair enough I appreciate talking to people who make well reasoned arguments and while I disagree with you I can see where you are coming from. In much the same way as while I disagree with almost everything aftcw says about the EU/British politics but he makes well reasoned arguments and you can have a good sensible discussion/debate with him.

 

Okay, in a nutshell, do you believe the country would elect Corbyn to the position of Prime Minister?

 

Total rubbish. He's a man who has campaigned and helped force through change in the House on apartheid, LGBT rights, Ireland peace process negotiations ect. He has pushed for positive change.

 

I have more chance of being PM than him

 

Do you believe that big issues should split political parties, rather than removing the leader who embodies the hopes and beliefs of those who voted for him?

 

I don't think it has to be a choice between one or the other. Power at the expense of principles is pointless. Ironically it's primarily the reason why Labour are where they are.

 

I don't think they'd elect him if he was stuck in a giant nutshell no!

But yes I do think he'd win an election - certainly the only Labour candidate who has a chance. My only issue is that no leader has been elected in the last 30 years without the backing of Murdoch and the main papers and they are all staunchly right wing/neo-liberal. So there's only two ways around it 1) accept that the Tories are going to win and have an even worse version of the 80s. I say this as its been proved that when Labour go right wing to appeal to the press/Tory supporters they lose huge numbers of their core support (see Scotland - lost 40 out of 41 seats, Wales have lost a large number of seats to UKIP and Plaid and Tories), also why vote for Tory-lite when you can have the real thing by voting Tory? So this plan didn't work in 2010 and 2015, in fact it was disastrous!

The only other way I see around it is with a strong, democratic, grassroots movement - ala Bernie Sanders and Podemos which will inspire the populace and drive home a strong anti-austerity message. It's already working for corbyn. Unheard numbers of people are flocking to the Labour party and joining the membership - 360k at last count. He's got the backing of the unions and other left parties. There is talks of the SNP, Plaid, Greens, SWP and others including even the Lib Dems uniting behind him to form a sort of coalition. There's massive rallies across the country in support of him (see Momentum) which is unheard of in levels of support for a leader - usually they get booed.

So in short (but not in a nutshell) I do think he can get elected.

 

Lots of people campaign but he's not been a leader of any of the campaigns. He's more of a shouty person from the sides.
While Corbyn is leader of the Labour Party they will continue to be a mess of a party.

 

Sorry could you rephrase, it's me, but I'm not sure what your asking me.

 

What a surprise, we disagree again. He lead many of those campaigns and was hugely influential in their success (at least from a British politics point of view). He did much more than just 'stand in front of crowds and shout'. Maybe it's just you don't know much about him....

But I'm happy, as I said before, to disagree with someone who thinks Gove is a man of the people who did a good job in Education. No point arguing about it.