Off Topic EU deabte. Which way are you voting ?

Wonder who'll have the last word on this thread?....

 

I don't know but I think we are rapidly approaching the last word. I'm certainly not going to try to debate with people who can only use insults.

 

I know Smirnoff will disagree, ( when he recovers from his JD hangover!). but I think Corbyn has to go or the Labour Party will split. They will almost certainly force a leadership contest, and if the last result is anything to go by Jezza will win again, aided by those listed below. And several £3 Tories too, who are very happy to see him as the leader of the opposition.

Whether you agree with his policies or not, personally I don't, he's clearly demonstrated that he's not the man to unite the party.

He may appeal to the far left and all the refugees from the SWP, Trotskyites, etc,who,paid their £3 to,vote him in, but in my view he has very limited appeal with the old core Labour voter - the working class man & woman.

For those reasons I think he should do what's best for his party and resign.

 

Don't you think that Corbyn thinks the members are HIS party and most of the MPs are hanging on to the tails of the members? I know the other view is that the members are hanging onto the tails of the voters and the MPs are representing the voters. I can't see any resolution to this issue until the majority of MPs form another party and appeal directly to the voters. One of the big questions is funding. Should this new party get funding from individuals and businesses or reach out to the unions? I think the unions would support a new party because there's more chance of there being some influence rather than a lot of influence in the old party which - while the present conflict continues - will not get elected.

 

The problem is that a lot of those who voted Corbyn in do not share the views of the traditional core Labour voter.
You have only to see one of Corbyn's rallies and see how many SWP banners are waving about to know that these are the far left wing.

if Labour continue on this path, they risk seeing even more of their once core support leaking away to the likes of Farage, who is only too willing to listen to, and amplify their concerns on immigration, Muslim extremists, etc.

That's why I can quite easily see a new Centre left party coming out of all this. If it does, I hope for their sake they learn from the mistakes of the Lib-Dems.

 

The quantity of MPs, and the attraction to voters, is such that they will have a lot better chance of being successful than the Lib Dems.

 

I know he was found to be a snake oil salesman, but there's a reason Blair was so popular once.

 

Both side lied FFS

 

I think there's a bit of sensationalism being peddled by the media here. One man is NOT going to cause the break up of the Labour party. The Labour party is an institution and still a bloody strong one.

 

A lot of people joined the Labour Party in the last year or so because of Corbyn not because they were Labour Party supports.
Most Labour Party MPs are anti-Corbyn. Most present members of the Labour Party are pro-Corbyn. I would think that most Labour voters are anti-Corbyn. How do you think it will be resolved?

 

You old min is a top bloke, you should listen to him. Wise he is, unlike you

 

Sorry, Trebs, but have to disagree a bit here. I'm pretty sure that a leadership election will be forced. I also believe that, as things look right now, Corbyn will win again.

Following that, I can quite easily see the majority of the parliamentary Labour Party breaking away and forming a new Centre left party. They feel, correctly in my view, that Corbyn is unelectable.

Plus, as I said earlier, he's clearly not the man who's going to unite the party.

 

I agree with you on this.

 

Corbyn has to go, it's as simple as that.

170 of the MP's he's supposed to be leading have voted that he's not a good leader. He's therefore got no credibility even within his own ranks.

What the rank and file Labour Party member currently thinks about him is moot in terms of the bigger picture, as its not them he needs to win over if he's going to ever lead Labour into Govt. and given even his own MP's don't think his leadership is up to the job of leading the opposition what chance the broader electorate thinking that he's indeed the man to take the country forward?

His clinging to the leadership in this manner is both unseemly and embarrassing for the party. He should have walked last week. The country needs strong opposition at the moment, probably more so than its needed it for a generation, and what we've got is a Labour Party in complete disarray.

 

I doubt they would've joined unless they supported Labour. If anything, they joined because Corbyn reignited their shared belief in Labour. I personally think that despite their liking for Corbyn, most people voting will take a more pragmatic approach and realise his leadership is untenable in real terms. There is also the possibility that he himself will realise this is not in the best interests of the party which I'm sure he clearly loves, and then step down for the greater cause. It could all go to the 11th hour but in the end common sense will prevail. There's a lot of unnecessary alarmism tbh

 

Corbyn still respects many in the Labour party who share his beliefs. He will listen to them and at some point (whether after a leadership election is triggered or before it) he'll realise that he could end up dividing the party and/or leading a party with nobody around him except for McDonnell, and realise it's just not workable, and resign.

 

Exactly. Which is why I'm convinced that he's unelectable.

It's obvious why he's clinging on. He believes that in another leadership election that he'll win with the support of his ragbag of leftie unions, Trotskyites, SWP, etc. And he probably will.

The parliamentary Labour Party believe, as you and I do, that he's unelectable. That's why I seriously think that there's a very good chance of a breakaway if Corbyn doesn't go.

 

I would agree, mate. I just hope he realises it soon. At the moment he looks like a limpet, desperately trying to cling on. TBH, it's becoming embarrassing to watch.

He's clearly not the man that's going to unite the Labour Party. Somebody needs to address the concerns of a lot of core Labour voters who are being wooed and won by Farage & co!

 

I agree, about why he's clinging on but I'm not sure he'll be re- elected personally. Labour would become completely fractured if that's the way it goes. A break away party is a possibility but I don't think it's the most likely outcome. Common sense will prevail at some point, but it's ****ing cringeworthy that they're seemingly going to have to drag him out by his heels.