Off Topic Impact of Brexit on Football

I was hugely disappointed and a bit embarrassed by the result. Surely anything that Boris Johnson and the smug oily racist Farage agree on has to be voted down in a sane world. I loathe the way that the out campaign have demonstrably lied to appeal to the lowest common denominator - the ingrained dislike of immigrants. I personally feel betrayed by a coalition of the elderly with their nice pensions and neat houses in the shires and the uneducated turning up to the booths in their Union Jack shorts.

I am looking forward to hearing the complaints from the Northern manufacturing towns when the likes of Nissan leave Sunderland and the consequences of this disastrous poll start to kick in.

I also hold Cameron responsible as he has sacrificed a more positive future out of the fear of UKIP at the last election. Cowardly political expediency.

Just to clarify I voted remain and I'm not a fan of Farage!

 

Absolutely spot on and I especially liked your comment re Nissan!!!

 

Ouch - http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/politic..._probably_fat_study_by_uea_academic_1_4599001

 

Repeatedly saying something is incorrect does not make it incorrect. You still have not explained how or why anything I have said is incorrect, whereas I've explained to you on each point why you got it wrong (e.g. the WTO arrangements, passporting and free movement, etc).

 

The latest newsletter from my Tory MP:-

Dear David ,

So how was the Referendum for you? Did you wake up on Friday morning with a feeling of amazement and joy that we’d thrown off the shackles of Brussels, or a gnawing fear that we’ve taken a leap in the dark? For most of us, I suspect, it’s a bit of both. But now the decision is taken, we’ve got to come together as a country and unite to make it work as best we can. We’ve got to show the world that Britain is still the place to be.

Make no mistake, it won't be easy. It’s going to take a big, collective effort from everyone. Families, friends, communities, businesses and, dare I say it, politicians must put aside past (and now irrelevant) differences and work closer together than ever before.

And, of course, life here in Weston, Worle and the villages goes on. If you want to know more about what’s been happening, read on……..

Best wishes,

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John Penrose
MP for Weston-super-Mare

 

Almost completely agree - they probably turned up in st George shirts rather then Union Jack shorts.

I also find it bizarre that I should be able to determine what is best for a country as I ultimately have no idea of the intricacies of remaining/leaving the EU - and could only vote based primarily on humanitarian reasons- still Cameron wanted to appease his backbenchers and look at the legacy he left behind

 

I have you just haven't listened. anyway lets just move on this is going nowhere.

 

This seems to be the over riding sentiment from ignorant lefty bellends, who pull off some sort of physical miracle of actually typing whilst almost entirely disappeared up their own arse! You really don't understand that some people don't live in some utopian nice gated upper middle class community where all minorities are well educated pillars of the community, that there are no problems with the EU and the generations of politicians who have ignored the peoples concerns for too long. I fit neither of your stereotypes, nor voted out on immigration grounds (though I will concede many did). But please think of me as a racist, Xenophobe or short wearing thicko, whatever makes you feel better! Europe is a mismanaged experiment that is going horribly wrong. 1 vote in 28 will never change it. In my opinion the only way forward is to see it dismantled and return to a trading zone with out all the political meddling. If they heed the Brexit shock and make fundimental changes with the people at heart then lets rejoin. but it's an economic disaster area and we will hopefully expedite its current forms demise.

Bah!

p.s. I'm all for civilised chat but this condecending attitude to any who were obviously so stark starringly stupid to vote leave is frankly insulting!

 

I don't agree with stereotyping voters, as it is too simplistic and unproductive. Having looked at our options now - joining EFTA (the Eurpoean Free Trade Association which the UK helped form in 1960) on the 'Norway model' or Switzerland's selective EFTA membership, or going down the WTO route which leaves us trying to negotiate trade agreements with 161 countries within 2 years - it's hard to see how the UK will in any way gain from Brexit and we may well end up in a worse position, with immigration hardly changed and paying more to trade with Europe now that the rebate is gone. The EU isn't going to collapse just becase the UK has left and the current chaos in both major parties hardly bodes well for our own future. Depressing times.

 

I would hope for an initial period, where if we cannot escape the EU regs on free movement we adopt a similar position to either Norway or the Swiss. This should steady the markets. In the meantime we should negotiate with greater freedom outside of the EU to strengthen our hand to then be able to renegotiate with the EU and it's member states when we are ready and able. At some point down the line we would then be able to say (Hopefully!) we no longer wish to trade on these terms, we are happy to trade with you tarriff free, but we will not accept free movement, X, Y & Z. Our hand may not be strong enough to do that now, but we must work to a position were we can.
And your right the EU won't collapse just because the UK has left. However I don't think we can rule out a slow painful collapse as other member states start to challenge rather broken system. We don't know what comes next, but France stands on the brink, next years election there, is neck and neck, with Le Pen also suggesting a referendum on the EU if she comes to power. Can the EU realistically survive without both the UK and France, and what trading power would it have? These things you would think will not come to pass, but then most thought we would remain!
As for our domestic political mess, who knows what we have in store for us. Get things badly wrong in this difficult position and the Tories could end up with a long slog to get back in power. That said, where is a creditable alternative? Labour are a joke, what happens if the same rank and file labour voters that brought Corbin to lead the party, do so again? 80% of his MP's don't want him their! It's that situation more than anything that bodes very badly for our future.

Bah!

 

Sorry if I've touched a nerve General. Thought you were made of sterner stuff - interesting that you are all for civilised chat yet feel happy to label me an ignorant lefty bellend. I don't recall ever accusing anyone on this forum of being ignorant or indeed resorting to personal insults but if you need to do so to solidify your argument then by all means feel free to do so.

If you look at the statistical analysis undertaken by the BBC the demographics of the remain campaign are overwhelmingly clear - younger 60/40 in the remain camp going down to older with 60/40 Brexit for the over 60's. Clearly not everyone in either age range voted one way or the other but it is certainly true to say that older voters wanted out, younger wanted to remain. Don't take my word for it, look it up for yourself if you want. Similarly people on benefits voted strongly out, people educated to degree standard or better voted remain. Again not 100% but certainly I feel it is fair to say that as a generalisation the older and less educated voted out, the younger and more educated went for remain. You may get your moustache in a twist over it but it is what it is. Even mid-rant you concede that many voted out simply out of xenophobia even though you ascertain did not.

I don't think you are either stupid or racist - nothing you have previously posted on here would suggest either - and I am sure you had valid reasons for voting out just as I feel that I had valid reasons for wishing to remain we both had a vote and took different choices. You won, I didn't and whilst I think we have left for all the wrong reasons I have to accept the democratic process. You certainly have the right to suggest that the EC can be torn down and re-invented as a free trade area, I have the opinion that this is your own Utopian dream - you may want it but it is not going to happen and the net result is that it will hutr us economically down the road. You say only one vote in 28 doesn't make much difference but it certainly makes a lot more of a difference than not being present at the negotiations and not having a vote but rather having to agree with everything decided within the EC if you wish to continue to trade there as in the Norwegian model many exiters seem to think is the solution to everything.

I honestly don't see an economic upside from leaving - I can't see a model that the rest of Europe would accept where the UK is better off. For the EC to give us a better deal by quitting they would be turkey's voting for Christmas. We can all hope for better agreements with the WTO but I cannot see our lone voice getting a better deal than is given to the whole continent of Europe. I can't think of an example where less bargaining power = a better deal.

Even the arguments about immigration don't stack up for me. I don't think that anyone would seriously suggest that EC migrants in this country give anything other than an economic gain to the country in terms of productivity and net tax take. We lose them and we are poorer as a nation for it. I also genuinely believe that EC migrants add something to the communities they join but I can only go by my own experience there and yes you are right that where I live the migrants tend to be either Health Professionals or Scientists and other peoples experience are no doubt different although I don't live in a gated upper-middle class community - do these exist really exist in Norfolk?

Anyway I don't think everyone who voted out is either stupid or racist or both. I reckon a lot were and I reckon the wrong decision has been made but time will tell. If the EC decides to implode and re-emerge as a free trade organisation or the UK starts to get better trade deals with the rest of the world or the borders are suddenly controlled then I'll be the first on here to eat humble pie and doff my beret to you and the the Exiters just as I'm sure you will when the multinationals start pulling out or staying only by us having to give them huge tax breaks as sweeteners.

 

Over 4,000,000 people have now signed the petition calling for a second referendum.
Are these people who are trying to move the goalposts by adding caveats, such as the percentage turnout on the day (see below)

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or people who voted 'leave' for possibly all the wrong or misguided reasons and 48 hours or so after getting their way are terrified of what they've actually achieved?

 

I think that we should at least require signatures exceding the pro-brexit vote for this to be taken seriously, otherwise it is not exactly democratic. Only £13M or so to go!

bah!

 

Very well said General, and as for your "ps" see above the letter from my MP, John Penrose who voted remain, it's good to see some old time good manners!

 

Yes, but if those people could wind the clock back eight days, the result would most likely have been the opposite to what we actually got. As with many things (including football), hindsight is wonderful....though foresight is infinitely better

 

I'm sure I read that that petitions integrity is questionable.

 

Did you see how the post was started? Good manners my hole!

 

I was talking about the good manners shown by my MP, the General was upset by being lumped into a group of old ignorant farts, unable to think for themselves!

 

Happy for you to point out to me by PM where I have been incorrect if you'd prefer not to show it here. The reality is I haven't once, but I agree it has got to the stage where we should move on.

The really interesting thing now (for lawyers, anyway) is how this Article 50 notice can be served. The delay in appointing a Tory PM is making the situation rapidly get to the stage where it will almost be impossible for the new PM to serve the notice. We will then really be left in limbo until a new GE.