Off Topic Political Debate

Especially if Scotland goes. At present there only seems to be one party in Parliament that doesn't hate itself - the SNP - and they don't want to be there, anyway. Perhaps the British parliamentarians should talk to the Belgians about how to run a country without an effective government. Alternatively, the Queen could take over. There only needs to be a minor constitutional tweak for this to be possible.

More seriously this smacks of the Weimar Republic, though no doubt Cologne has more knowledge on this.

 

Another great analysis Cologne...... The Rulers of our country true to form.... we must watch out for a war call... at times of disarray we often ride off into a war elsewhere.... great for national unity

 

Excellent news that Boris is not running for PM. The Conservatives can now be seen as the party of hope and opportunity rather than privilege. There are some very well qualified candidates, time to unite the party and unite the country.

 

The reason that Boris is not running is that he was never a real 'Brexiter' and he does not want to be responsible for pulling the trigger in the end, he was playing a double game all along and, for him, the referendum result was the worst possible result.

 

So you are favouring Gove then? A fervent Brexiter. A Gove / May team would be excellent.

 

What I am saying is that having helped to create the problem in the first place he is now running away from the consequences of his actions. The Brexit team is folding because they have no plan, cannot fulfill their promises, their lies and claims are now coming out into the open, and because they cannot find a person who would be prepared to actually caste Britain into an isolated and unstable future and take full responsibility for it.

 

Nonsense, The future is bright, the future is Blue.

 

Yet another totally content free answer.

 

1982 of them so far...

 

You need inspiration from the tomatoes!

 

Like the UK, the Tory party is breaking up. The official opposition is in complete disarray. It is the Prime Minister that has to sign Article 50 but he or she can only do that with the consent of Parliament. Individual MPs will be offering that vote to the person who will help them in the long term. There is a huge jockeying for personal power at different levels but the situation is so fluid that a seemingly good decision now is the wrong decision an hour later.

This is a major political and constitutional crisis. When that happens the populace becomes restless. From all this there is a danger that a 'Strong Man' will emerge. Will that be a Cromwell or a Churchill? For Churchill the common enemy was obvious. Who is the enemy now? One will have to be created.

If the EU want Article 50 signed quickly I think that they will be disappointed. In normal circumstances the non-signing would lead to a vote of no confidence in the Government. That may still happen but there is no opposition. It is interesting that some of the Tory party leadership runners say that there will be no General election till 2020. It wouldn't surprise me if there is one earlier, though, just to get over the political paralysis. If that were to happen UKIP would get a lot of MPs but the country would be more divided than ever.

What should happen is Cameron demanding loyalty from his party so that he can sign Article 50 and get the negotiations going. He called the referendum, he carries the can for the subsequent mess, he sorts it out. The problem is that he doesn't have the leadership qualities for that.

 

Does anyone have the power or the authority to demand that party loyalty overrides all other moral convictions ? Whoever does this is asking that three quarters of the British Parliament vote for something which they think will ruin the economy for an indefinite period, will reduce Britain's standing in the World, and will almost certainly break up the UK.

 

I cannot believe the lack of depth which the pre referendum debate demonstrated. The whole argument now revolves around Article 50, which few people seem to know anything about - and, if they do, this information is not being relayed further. Is Britain still a member for the 2 years of negotiations ? Are all payments still due - in both directions ? Many Brexiters have built their case around the idea that the EU. will offer us better conditions at some stage - others suggest that we can negotiate and then decide again whether we want a second referendum under the changed circumstances. I have not been able to find an answer to the question of whether Article 50 is actually reversible or not, and the answers I have heard have been contradictory - the house of lords legal study suggests it is - others, including Theresa May (and Angela Merkel) have suggested it is a one way street. Surely accurate information on this is essential.

 

And if they don't there will be a massive sense of betrayal for about half the electorate, more in England, and break up the UK. It is hard not to see the Tory party splitting in two and the Labour Party being deserted by its electorate whatever happens.

In addition I hear that Londoners are getting restless about being dragged out of the EU against their wishes. It's a bit hard to tell whether there is a genuine movement or whether it is just outsiders enjoying the British turmoil, but I've read that a London independence movement is gaining a lot of support. That would be interesting.

 

This is a complete overreaction to the situation, agreed the Labour Party is in meltdown but the Tories are fine. The MP's will begin their ballot soon to whittle down the prospective candidates. We will emerge with two extremely competent people with one going on to be PM who will then decide the date when to activate article 50. During the election period it will not be businesses as usual but will give time to assemble negotiation teams and collate advice from all of the various sectors.

The UK parliament voted to offer the people a referendum which has subsequently resulted in a majority decision. To deny this act of democracy would lead to loss of confidence and trust in the UK parliament. There is no justification whatsoever to gerrymander the result.

It is extremely unlikely that the Tories will call a general election because they simply have a mandate to continue without one, unless they decide to take advantage of the chaos currently wrecking the Labour Party.

 

It was good to hear Theresa May firmly discount any chance of remaining in the EU or attempt to rejoin it through the back door.

Sensible and very clear advice to those who may try any anti democratic skulduggery.

 

You may well be right SH. You are closer to the action than I am. I can only comment on what may be biased information I get here, which is based on the unmitigated joy at the position the UK currently finds itself in. There may be cultural ties between NZ and the UK but as far as trade is concerned, the gloves are off. The perception here is that the UK will be desperate for trading partners and NZ will be in a position to screw the British. We have a neo-liberal government for whom money is the only important factor. The belief is that NZ can dominate the British dairy sector and, along with Australia, can destroy the British sheep meat and wool industries. Brexit is seen as a massive opportunity for NZ and that NZ will be negotiating from a very strong position. Don't expect any favours.

I have less knowledge of the Australian position but their government, whichever one wins the election, is even less sympathetic to Britain. Of course, both NZ and Australia are not particularly important trading partners with the UK so it may be that our governments are being over optimistic. Another thing, the NZ media is not stating this quite so bluntly but whilst the world may exhibit 6 degrees of separation, in NZ it is only two degrees. if people don't know a person who knows, they certainly know one of his/her friends or colleagues. As far as I can see, the only thing that will change the NZ position towards the UK is if NZ can negotiate better trade deals with China and India. The deals with Russia are failing because of Putin and the Americans are wary of NZ getting too close to Iran.

 

At the EU Parliament one speaker vehemently bemoaned the paucity of real debate and the divisive one liners which often had no veracity.

I think that saddened me more than anything. What should have been a reasoned informed process with facts and outcomes laid out... became worse than populist political hustings.


Whatever the result, the people and the country have been diminished by it.

And then the manner in which Gove and others have manipulated things for their own ends leads me to be unable to believe a word they say...

 

There can be little doubt that many countries think that they will at long last be able to conduct trade talks holding the upper hand as the UK will be desperate to get some deals done. Investment into the UK is not an optional extra, just look at the trade figures. Already one of the largest banks in Singapore has stopped providing investment funds for would be investors, and the other three are currently conducting urgent reviews into their exposure, and have suggested that people who already have investments should consider their position. All boring stuff I know, but this is what the reality is actually about.

 

Moving away from the economic argument Frenchie - there is a very human aspect to this, which is the tragic side. Millions of people will have their legal status changed as a result of Brexit - millions of people who were not asked for their opinion, but were affected by the result. This is why I do not accept the democratic or legal validity of this referendum result. To an extent if you take part in a vote then you are obliged to accept the result of it - but, I was not asked to take part. The 3 million EU. citizens in the UK. the 2 million British living in the EU. the 4 million British living in other countries of the World - mostly they were not asked. The British passport holders aged between 16 and 18 were also not asked, though every British passport holder is directly affected by the result. So, I have a right to not accept the result. The result of this so called 'democratic' vote was achieved through the disenfranchizement of millions of British citizens.