Yes terrible how the press manipulated this... The Mail too has been highlighted in the same way as the Sun... The day many of the British people experienced a disconnect with the realities of the world
Who else but a complete idiot would risk calling a referendum (on anything) on a simple first past the post system without any form of threshhold in a country where the Mail and the Sun are the most widely read newspapers - if the leader can be so dumm what chance for the rest.
I had a discussion last night with both Dutch and Swiss nationals. The Dutch have threshholds of 60/40 and if that is not met there is either a second poll, or the proposal is dropped. The Swiss are always holding them, and work on a simple majority. Although it seems a good idea to consult often, unless there is an issue that attracts a lot of attention, there is a tiny turnout of voters. Seems that they are just fed up with having them.
I know.... madness... Listening and reading the soundbites of some of those who voted you would think they believed it would cure all ills..... But yes the fact the referendum was organised in this way beggars belief.... How one can make the biggest change to our country in decades with a simple majority vote ????? Basically 48% of those who voted are now alienated, the young are alienated. Both main parties are split, the Union is likely to end, the economy is likely to be in a parlous state for 5-10 years etc etc And our European friends are going to really like us and want to do special deals with us... for what: Reducing immigration? Unlikely to happen for years and the cost of migrants which has been shown to actually be a net contribution will offset nothing against the cost to the country on Friday alone on the world markets. Sovereignty? Well power to change some laws and call our cheeses Stilton etc. ( and of course half our nation has been alienated by the outcome) Bureaucracy? Well the cost and time of sorting all this will be MUCH more than we have ever paid to the EU Free Trade? Well no gain on this one for MANY years. The Economy? Well, I could see what would happen and it has. How come Boris, Gove, Farage and co. seem to be completely unperturbed as to what has happened to the world wide economy as a result???
I think you will find Frenchie that although the Swiss work on a simple majority system that they have to have that in every Canton to actually change existing legislation. This was why it was the last country in Europe to give votes to women - because Graubünden kept blocking it !
Very sensible threshold.... and of course the Swiss are very shrewd and would surely never go down the road we have embarked on....
The Swiss system and it's connection with the EU is hopeless. Do a trade deal and it then has to go back for another vote. By the time it is rejected, re-framed, put back to the people, then back to the EU, amended, rejected, re-framed....... everyone has forgotten all about what the deal was going to be about.
I actually think the result was a shock to both sides The real purpose of the referendum was to say to Brussels, look 50% of the population don't want you, there are also similar feelings in the majority of the original members of the EU it is time to reform or risk destruction All the politicians were probably on the same side just different viewpoints It is not too late for the EU to look into itself and see what needs to be done for the future benefit of Europe I personally did not want to be part of what the EU has become but would prefer a remodelled EU that met the needs of all its members and forget about its Grand Plan because it would have been more like the USSR than the USA If not then we may be better off out of it, but not for 10 or even 20 years, too long for most of the people who voted to leave
I have to agree that there was no expectation from the leave side that they would win, and now that they have there is no plan being put forward as to how they are going to deal with it. There have been so many different ideas put forward today from them that it is clear they are struggling to know how to even start sorting matters out. Most of the comment seems to suggest that they have realized just how important the single market is, and they may now be looking at the Norway option, which would go against so much of what they have said before the vote. Backtracking is getting faster by the hour. It has clearly stirred matters in the EU. Reforms were underway, but very slowly. They are now talking that the process of returning more powers to individual countries will be sped up. There have been many comments from the leaders, often prompted by the UK, that the closer union was not likely to happen in the near future.
Boris Johnson says the UK will continue to "intensify" cooperation with the EU and tells his fellow Leave supporters they must accept the 52-48 referendum win was "not entirely overwhelming". The pro-Leave campaign head, says "the only change" will be to free the country from the EU's "extraordinary and opaque" law, which "will not come in any great rush". What the hell is this supposed to mean? Sounds like someone who has realized what a large hole he has dug for himself.
Scotland leaves the Union. Northern Ireland joins the Republic. Londoners get sick of subsidising the rest of England and have talks with Singapore on how to run a city state. Many of the educated and professional classes emigrate. The Labour party implodes leaving the two major parties in England as the right wing of the Conservatives and UKIP. OR Everything settles down after some volatility. New markets are created for UK goods and import duties relaxed, thereby lowering prices. Selective immigration results in building the UK knowledge base, making the UK a more efficient economy. The EU has to radically change its structures to prevent more countries leaving, becomes more efficient, and wants trade deals with the UK. OR Something else happens that no-one has expected and Brexit becomes meaningless. I will be watching with great interest.
I read somewhere that one of the key political editors has been frozen out as a result of going against the line of the owners.....
I wonder if the all this whinging and whining from the remain side about the structure of the referendum had they won? Don't think so. You lost, end of.
I guess there have to be thresholds such as that as a straight first past the post decision can still be controversial if there is a low turn-out. In the Scottish Devolution Referendum, Westminster imposed a condition that a Yes vote would only be valid if at least 40% of the electoral register voted Yes. The Yes vote 'won' the referendum 52% to 48%, but the low 64% turn-out stymied them. Perhaps it's time to follow Australia's system and make voting compulsory? It certainly doesn't mean that 100% will actually vote - the average turn-out in Australia is around 95% - but it certainly does give a clearer picture of what the public actually want.
"British people will still be able to go and work in the EU; to live; to travel; to study; to buy homes and to settle down. As the German equivalent of the CBI - the BDI - has very sensibly reminded us, there will continue to be free trade, and access to the single market. "The only change - and it will not come in any great rush - is that the UK will extricate itself from the EU's extraordinary and opaque system of legislation: the vast and growing corpus of law enacted by a European Court of Justice from which there can be no appeal." So Boris is now saying that the free movement of EU citizens will still happen in order to have access to the single market. So what is different to what we already have? There is an article in Reuters today suggesting that Brexit will not happen soon and maybe never will. For Boris to think that a bit of tinkering around the edges will be enough after what he said shows that he really didn't think beforehand what he was doing. Naked ambition to get into No 10 is hardly enough when running a country is at stake.
Not a lot I suspect - the UK will still have to pay for that access (at the current rate, but without rebates?), will still have the immigration "problem" that so many voters focussed on - but will have no right to vote on rules & regulations that govern the single market. Given the number of racists who appear to feel empowered/emboldened by the result, this could go down in history as Boris' Folly.
