Whoever said that this question was too complicated for some of our countrymen was condemned as patronising
"Cutting your nose to spite your face" and "incomprehensible madness " seems the general view of foreign observers.
Off Topic YOUR VOTE COUNTED...
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Whoever said that this question was too complicated for some of our countrymen was condemned as patronising
"Cutting your nose to spite your face" and "incomprehensible madness " seems the general view of foreign observers.
I would say anyone who actually thought about it then vote leave did want it and know that's the score
Yes he's under severe pressure.
If labour fudge it and keep him they'll be toast.
The only leader we've seen this weekend has been the SNP battle axe.
The 'working' man wanted to wave his flag, protest against the political spectrum and show he didn't like the darkies and Eastern Europeans nicking the benefits that he's entitled to - as he's a born and bred.....
The old gibbers were harking back to the days of the ****ing empire, and aren't keen on darkies either, but we'll whisper it.
There was **** all thought by the majority of that segment about the potential economic consequences. They just liked the thought of 'getting our country back' (oh the irony) and closing the doors to foreigners. That's it.
That's the problem. They didn't. Many people apparently phoned their council on Friday and said they wanted to change their minds. You just couldn't make it up.
someone somewhere in the 1 odd million had to have thought about it
The question is did people know what they were voting on? The politicians in China (!) are already sneering about the so called benefits of democracy. Implying that the people do not always know best. I disagree with them but the people need to be properly informed.
Did people think they were providing a vote of confidence on Cameron? Did they believe they were voting in a GE? Did they believe Boris and Gove when they presented a post Brexit plan on funding for the NHS, immigration rules, housing when they would have had absolutely no mandate to do anything at all? Did people believe that each vote will count , not like in a general election ?
I did... i cannot comprehend anyone who did not.
My view is people need to properly inform THEMSELVES. people who vote for a change they don't understand are frankly idiots. Anyone who voted leave knowing what it meant are fine. I can understand them and not agree with them and thats fine.
I mean all the needed to was read the question asked in the booth....."Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?"
quite simple....
My view is people need to properly inform THEMSELVES. people who vote for a change they don't understand are frankly idiots. Anyone who voted leave knowing what it meant are fine. I can understand them and not agree with them and thats fine.
I mean all the needed to was read the question asked in the booth....."Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?"
quite simple....
There is a way out of this Remainers...not this nonsense of an immediate second referendum...C'mon: the peoples trust in our political processes is at an all time low as it is. Same for the current Parliament refusing to approve the referendum vote...parliament may be sovereign but it would have no current moral authority to do this.
However. Certain things are clear.
A Lords committee has highlighted that as part of the devolution legislation Approval of the Referendum outcome has to be gained from the local assemblies...As it stands Scotland and Northern Ireland assemblies would have no moral authority to approve this based on the same referendum results.
Both main UK political parties are or very soon will be leaderless and deeply divided over this issue...Neither is in a position to negotiate a settlement that would satisfy their current manifestos...
So.
No button pushed...Two party leaderships should be contested based on clear plans of how they would take their party into a unavoidable general election in coming months.
The winners then have to go to the people stating how they would now implement a Brexit in practical terms or indeed why they don't believe as a government they could implement a Brexit settlement.
This gives two chances to see sense. First The Tory party by selecting it's next leader confirms or thwarts whether they will now be a far right party. If they confirm then they go to the electorate as such. If they are returned as a govt on a pro finishing Brexit platform then the referendum result is confirmed and we go with it..however they will also be campaigning on a far right domestic manifesto...on things that really made many Brexit voters angry...will they get reelected? I'm not confidant of that.
Labour has a chance to have a resurgence..Get rid of Corbyn, realise where they have gone wrong with their electorate and put out a manifesto that addresses the concerns they've ignored to date along with a way they would try to negotiate with the EU on a new set of reforms to enable us to stay in the EU...argue that the slap to the face of the EU has been delivered, they will now really listen and this is what we demand to stay in. A much more logical and powerful negotiating position than that Cameron had.
If Labour are voted in that would give them the moral authority to try and find a way with the EU to reverse the referendum position. If the EU is obstinate then the button can still be pushed. My gut feeling is they won't be..They've under a fear of a domino effect already started talking about reform..I also think they'd be prepared to wait if Labour can get new leadership and present a clear plan quickly.
Also although less likely there could be a shift back away from the right during the Tory leadership contest as candidates would have to present their plans on negotiation...if Boris is the chancer we think he is...it'll show up in his plans...
There is away still to avoid Brexit while not throwing moral authority out the window side stepping it a bit
However. Certain things are clear.
A Lords committee has highlighted that as part of the devolution legislation Approval of the Referendum outcome has to be gained from the local assemblies...As it stands Scotland and Northern Ireland assemblies would have no moral authority to approve this based on the same referendum results.
Both main UK political parties are or very soon will be leaderless and deeply divided over this issue...Neither is in a position to negotiate a settlement that would satisfy their current manifestos...
So.
No button pushed...Two party leaderships should be contested based on clear plans of how they would take their party into a unavoidable general election in coming months.
The winners then have to go to the people stating how they would now implement a Brexit in practical terms or indeed why they don't believe as a government they could implement a Brexit settlement.
This gives two chances to see sense. First The Tory party by selecting it's next leader confirms or thwarts whether they will now be a far right party. If they confirm then they go to the electorate as such. If they are returned as a govt on a pro finishing Brexit platform then the referendum result is confirmed and we go with it..however they will also be campaigning on a far right domestic manifesto...on things that really made many Brexit voters angry...will they get reelected? I'm not confidant of that.
Labour has a chance to have a resurgence..Get rid of Corbyn, realise where they have gone wrong with their electorate and put out a manifesto that addresses the concerns they've ignored to date along with a way they would try to negotiate with the EU on a new set of reforms to enable us to stay in the EU...argue that the slap to the face of the EU has been delivered, they will now really listen and this is what we demand to stay in. A much more logical and powerful negotiating position than that Cameron had.
If Labour are voted in that would give them the moral authority to try and find a way with the EU to reverse the referendum position. If the EU is obstinate then the button can still be pushed. My gut feeling is they won't be..They've under a fear of a domino effect already started talking about reform..I also think they'd be prepared to wait if Labour can get new leadership and present a clear plan quickly.
Also although less likely there could be a shift back away from the right during the Tory leadership contest as candidates would have to present their plans on negotiation...if Boris is the chancer we think he is...it'll show up in his plans...
There is away still to avoid Brexit while not throwing moral authority out the window side stepping it a bit
This is exactly how I see it panning out as well. The GE which is now seems inevitable will be the opportunity for a back shuffle from this. Whether that's the outcome will be fascinating to watch
Nicola Sturgeon has said there was a possibility that Scotland could veto Brexit. As a country which is a key constituent of the Union (UK), with such a decisive mandate, they could via their parliament exercise that right on moral grounds but legally where does that stand?
Same issue with us..As I said a Lords committee seems to think it's within the devolution legislation that the devolved assemblies need to approve it...and NI and Scotland could use regional results as THEIR moral authority to resist.
The counter legal argument returns to the primacy of Westminster as the final authority. Wouldn't happen but theoretically Westminster can withdraw the devolved powers at any time.
Another possible legal argument could be that a general UK wide referendum goes against the idea of devolution...that the referendum should have been 4 separate refs with approval needed in all four countries to get vote either way.
Cameron dismissed this idea for the same reason we find ourselves in now..I. e. The idea that one country say Scotland could thwart the will of the other 4...we just got the opposite outcome; one or two rather, enforcing their will on the other two.
As myself and many others have said this whole campaign by both sides was a disgrace and it has led to the ridiculous situation that only now is honest (well more honest) debate taking place about the issues. The fact that neither side really detailed what the future looked like means people voted without the facts and are now getting a serious shock.
The remain side imo missed a trick by not pinning down the leave campaign(s) on their road map for disengaging from the EU
The remain side imo missed a trick by not pinning down the leave campaign(s) on their road map for disengaging from the EU
The futility in practical terms of Scotland and NI assemblies refusing to approve the ref result is that the EU will not directly negotiate with them...As Sturgeon found out very quickly when she tried to do so.
If it goes ahead the best either state could hope for is a seat in the negotiations and requesting special separate agreements for their areas with the EU. Possible for Scotland..more of a problem for NI since our Executive is made up of two diametrically opposed views on Europe: the DUP wanted Brexit...Sinn Fein didn't...hard to put forward a shared negotiating position in that light.
If it goes ahead the best either state could hope for is a seat in the negotiations and requesting special separate agreements for their areas with the EU. Possible for Scotland..more of a problem for NI since our Executive is made up of two diametrically opposed views on Europe: the DUP wanted Brexit...Sinn Fein didn't...hard to put forward a shared negotiating position in that light.
My mate who's job handles EU grants for NI fishing industry (he voted remain obviously) spent Friday receiving call after call from fishermen trying to confirm if they'd be getting their EU grants...his response to them was "so yesterday you all to a man voted to leave the EU but today you want to know if you're getting your EU money???"
You couldn't make it up lol...
You couldn't make it up lol...
TBH difficult to see Scotland getting special seperate agreements whilst part of UK . Difficult to see why either EU or rest of UK fancy that much
PS saw Sturgeon this morning on Andrew Marr couldn't help but laugh when she suggested Scotland could remain EU and keep the pound. Talk about statements you must know will never come to pass. I mean the idea they could join the EU and not have Euro is farfetched but the idea of using the currency of a state not in EU and which you have a land border with is just bizarre.
In the same way, the Cornish Welsh North East voted solidly for Brexit even though they get huge eu funds. They apparently checked with the Leave camp which obviously said that their funding would be safeguarded (!) . So they all happily voted to leave/bite the hand that feeds them.
What is it with these people? It is like burning the houses they live in because they hate the colour of the rooms. Lol.
The same as Cornwall, voted for leave but still want the UK to match the massive EU grants they receive. Its utter madness.
Think if people thought about the EU funds they worked on the theory as we are net contributors to EU our Govt could not only continue the funding but increase it. They forgot about the budget deficit apparently
7 of the shadow cabinet have now resigned and a further 12 are likely to follow. Does Jeremy just appoint new shadow cabinet members from his cronies, or have a leader election which he will win again due to the "newcomers" into the Labour party who hijacked the last leader election. Labour are a spent force unless they can somehow get rid of Jezza.