Off Topic The Politics Thread

[ELLERS]

Too much bullsh2t i keep reading (not here)about this happening that happening, petitions, Lammy, Scotland,London blah blah blah. It's all project fear and fantasy Island stuff.
We are OUT everyone and we need to move on.

As for the divorce lines i keep hearing? Normally in a divorce or a relation break up we say things in the heat of the moment and normally after a while you sort things (not always) but when it comes to a relationship with 28 members and lots of money involved it will be sorted so all parties are happy.

 

[durbar2003]

I work with the general public and you'd be surprised how scary it is that so


I have an umbilical hernia, I used to have an inny now it's half outy how would I have voted?

Just had one myself, the docs gave me a nice new one!

 

[Rangers Til I Die]

If that happens I think there'll be riots.

Possibly. But if individuals, in the light of where we are at now, lobby their MP's to reject the vote then that surely serves democratic process and affords people the right to change their minds (if they wish to) or get engaged if they did not vote in the referendum.
Nature abhors a vacuum and this is at risk of turning into a sorry debacle unless, as others have said, we get some decent leadership from somewhere quite soon.

 

[Stroller]

Yes, let's all let Lammy lead us into anarchy. He might get away with that in some unreconstructed ex Soviet block country or a Central African state but not in a Parliamentary democracy where trust between governors and governed is sacred, even if not perfect

Hardly anarchy Goldie - the referendum is not binding constitutionally. If our elected representatives choose to tell us that they know better than we do (as they do with capital punishment for example), they are free to do so. I'm not suggesting that this would be a good idea, but it shows just what a shambles Cameron has left us with. By the way - trust? You are kidding right?

 

[Rangers Til I Die]

Speculative as yet and some will continue to call this scaremongering but of concern if this becomes any sort of trend.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36629745

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

Hardly anarchy Goldie - the referendum is not binding constitutionally. If our elected representatives choose to tell us that they know better than we do (as they do with capital punishment for example), they are free to do so. I'm not suggesting that this would be a good idea, but it shows just what a shambles Cameron has left us with. By the way - trust? You are kidding right?

The will of the people must be respected

Trust? Take a look at how people reacted to their own MP's after the killing of Jo Cox. Most trust them to do a good job for the right reasons. Of course there are some self seekers about, and a few scoundrels

 

[Stroller]

The will of the people must be respected

Trust? Take a look at how people reacted to their own MP's after the killing of Jo Cox. Most trust them to do a good job for the right reasons. Of course there are some self seekers about, and a few scoundrels

How can anybody be expected to trust any of the liars (pretty much all Tories by the way) involved in this shameful campaign?

 

[QPR Oslo]

This is what we need to do start trading more with Australia/New Zealand/Canada/India/South Africa. My Mum said in the old days New Zealand lamb was cheap and tasty but when we joined Europe we stitched them up.

The lamb?

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

How can anybody be expected to trust any of the liars (pretty much all Tories by the way) involved in this shameful campaign?

There was hyperbole on both sides. All claims were pretty closely scrutinised by media, and the public are astute enough to recognise sales jobs. It was mainly Tory driven because Labour disappeared, following the example of their leader

 

[QPR Oslo]

I was joking durbar. I am English and proud, besides there will be deals on the table from Europe which will make any of our travel just as easy as now. People need to remember there are plenty of Europeans living and working here and it won't change.

Re passports, you can have a dual passport.

Maybe with Ireland but not everywhere.

 

[YorkshireHoopster]

It's fascinating watching the wriggling that is going on here. Cameron et al have said and done the right thing. The people have spoken and therefore our decision has to be respected. Let's remember the question. Should the UK remain in the EU or leave? Did I miss something? The decision was to leave. There is no room for semantic debate or interpretation. There can be no question now of the next PM now being able to stall. Anyway FFS s/he has two years in which to stop the direct debits from the Bank of England to Brussels and finalise the accounts. What else is there to do? Everyone who is currently living or working on the wrong side will simply have their contracts of employment and leave to remain terminated or not depending on the wishes of the host country and their respective employer. If they don't and choose simply to vanish they can be deported in the usual way. Unpalatable isn't it

It should be perfectly simple. If we don't have room for the several million expats even after the millions of Poles etc have flown home, we can always put them up in hostels and rented accommodation at great expense until they can be properly resettled. Surely that contingency has been planned for? After all we won't need to build a new NHS hospital each week so, one a month will probably suffice to persuade us that they are not breaking their referendum promises. Surely there'll be some loose change with which to pay for this?

I honestly do begin to wonder what is going on here. The vote was decided on the issues of immigration and right to make our own laws and control our own destiny. There are too many immigrants taking jobs which British workers can do and we can't prevent them coming in. The whole point of the Brexit campaign was that we would reverse that. To listen to some in the Brexit camp now, it would seem that nobody has actually said that and if we, the electorate thought that it is our fault - we must have misinterpreted.

It is difficult to see given the fact that the politicians have a clear mandate to take us out asap why there is even any talk of renegotiation of our terms of membership.

 

[Stroller]

There was hyperbole on both sides. All claims were pretty closely scrutinised by media, and the public are astute enough to recognise sales jobs. It was mainly Tory driven because Labour disappeared, following the example of their leader

The public are astute? The £350m bullshit was debunked pretty early on, but Johnson in particular kept on with it in the knowledge that it would have an impact anyway - If you repeat a lie often enough.....

I've read that that there were many instances of 'push polling', whereby ostensible phone pollsters were posing questions along the lines of 'We give £350m a week to the EU - Is this an important issue for you?'

 

[durbar2003]

Are there figures that show how many EU workers there are working in the UK and UK workers in the EU?

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

The public are astute? The £350m bullshit was debunked pretty early on, but Johnson in particular kept on with it in the knowledge that it would have an impact anyway - If you repeat a lie often enough.....

I've read that that there were many instances of 'push polling', whereby ostensible phone pollsters were posing questions along the lines of 'We give £350m a week to the EU - Is this an important issue for you?'

I understood early on that the £350m was a gross figure. It was discussed ofter enough in the media. I don't think anyone was under a misapprehension by the date of the vote unless they were a hermit

Never heard of push polling - no one rang me... Look at all the taxpayers £ used for the Remain campaign, and Cameron's use of the 10 Downing Street door in his final appeal to voters to give him an advantage. It was all borderline stuff

 

[sb_73]

Speculative as yet and some will continue to call this scaremongering but of concern if this becomes any sort of trend.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36629745

Sadly that is not an isolated example. Morgan Stanley already talking about relocating 2000 British jobs involved in Eurozone trading to the Eurozone. These people will not necessarily hang around for the results of the Brexit negotiation, they will weigh up the cost of shifting early against the uncertainty of the limbo period. The cost of relocating will hopefully be too much for manufacturers like Toyota etc, but the UK looks much less attractive to inward investment out of the EU. Just read about a £250m investment in life sciences slated for the UK cancelled, likely to go somewhere in the EU (not a confirmed story, to be fair). It's just common sense from a business perspective I'm afraid. No sentiment involved. And totally beyond the control of politicians - though I suppose we could radically cut corporation tax to try to entice them to stay/invest. But then again there's been a lot of anti big business rhetoric in this campaign, will look odd if we start lubing up for them at this stage.

I seem to recall Col commenting much earlier on the thread about feeling like we were trapped by the potential terms of exit - apologies if it wasn't you Col, or I've invented it. I think that's right though, not so much by the EU rules as by international cash flows. Cut yourself out of the biggest, richest market in the world, even if it isn't performing very well, and the money river changes course. Let's see how it pans out over the next few weeks, any luck I'm totally wrong, wouldn't be the first time.

Hilary Benn trying to get a mass resignation in the shadow cabinet next week to force Corbyn out.

I used to think I liked uncertainty and change, it keeps things exciting. But I'm not enjoying this. I don't like a decision, even one that I don't like, which has been taken democratically (ok we can debate that) being undermined by forces beyond anyone's control.

 

[durbar2003]

USA,Canada, Japan and China are not part of the EU and they seem to making out ok!

 

[Stroller]

I understood early on that the £350m was a gross figure. It was discussed ofter enough in the media. I don't think anyone was under a misapprehension by the date of the vote unless they were a hermit

Never heard of push polling - no one rang me... Look at all the taxpayers £ used for the Remain campaign, and Cameron's use of the 10 Downing Street door in his final appeal to voters to give him an advantage. It was all borderline stuff

You and I may have understood early on that they were lying about the £350m Goldie, but most people didn't - 60% believed it. How can the perpetrators of these lies expect to be trusted in future?

 

[durbar2003]

You and I may have understood early on that they were lying about the £350m Goldie, but most people didn't - 60% believed it. How can the perpetrators of these lies expect to be trusted in future?

Politicians have been telling lies since the beginning of politicians.

 

[Stroller]

Sadly that is not an isolated example. Morgan Stanley already talking about relocating 2000 British jobs involved in Eurozone trading to the Eurozone. These people will not necessarily hang around for the results of the Brexit negotiation, they will weigh up the cost of shifting early against the uncertainty of the limbo period. The cost of relocating will hopefully be too much for manufacturers like Toyota etc, but the UK looks much less attractive to inward investment out of the EU. Just read about a £250m investment in life sciences slated for the UK cancelled, likely to go somewhere in the EU (not a confirmed story, to be fair). It's just common sense from a business perspective I'm afraid. No sentiment involved. And totally beyond the control of politicians - though I suppose we could radically cut corporation tax to try to entice them to stay/invest. But then again there's been a lot of anti big business rhetoric in this campaign, will look odd if we start lubing up for them at this stage.

I seem to recall Col commenting much earlier on the thread about feeling like we were trapped by the potential terms of exit - apologies if it wasn't you Col, or I've invented it. I think that's right though, not so much by the EU rules as by international cash flows. Cut yourself out of the biggest, richest market in the world, even if it isn't performing very well, and the money river changes course. Let's see how it pans out over the next few weeks, any luck I'm totally wrong, wouldn't be the first time.

Hilary Benn trying to get a mass resignation in the shadow cabinet next week to force Corbyn out.

I used to think I liked uncertainty and change, it keeps things exciting. But I'm not enjoying this. I don't like a decision, even one that I don't like, which has been taken democratically (ok we can debate that) being undermined by forces beyond anyone's control.

This is wrong, Stan. We are taking back control.

 

[durbar2003]

Sadly that is not an isolated example. Morgan Stanley already talking about relocating 2000 British jobs involved in Eurozone trading to the Eurozone. These people will not necessarily hang around for the results of the Brexit negotiation, they will weigh up the cost of shifting early against the uncertainty of the limbo period. The cost of relocating will hopefully be too much for manufacturers like Toyota etc, but the UK looks much less attractive to inward investment out of the EU. Just read about a £250m investment in life sciences slated for the UK cancelled, likely to go somewhere in the EU (not a confirmed story, to be fair). It's just common sense from a business perspective I'm afraid. No sentiment involved. And totally beyond the control of politicians - though I suppose we could radically cut corporation tax to try to entice them to stay/invest. But then again there's been a lot of anti big business rhetoric in this campaign, will look odd if we start lubing up for them at this stage.

I seem to recall Col commenting much earlier on the thread about feeling like we were trapped by the potential terms of exit - apologies if it wasn't you Col, or I've invented it. I think that's right though, not so much by the EU rules as by international cash flows. Cut yourself out of the biggest, richest market in the world, even if it isn't performing very well, and the money river changes course. Let's see how it pans out over the next few weeks, any luck I'm totally wrong, wouldn't be the first time.

Hilary Benn trying to get a mass resignation in the shadow cabinet next week to force Corbyn out.

I used to think I liked uncertainty and change, it keeps things exciting. But I'm not enjoying this. I don't like a decision, even one that I don't like, which has been taken democratically (ok we can debate that) being undermined by forces beyond anyone's control.

You must be happy, all those traders sent packing.