The SNP will find there is no way the EU will allow their entry. Other countries, especially Spain will not allow any encouragement for nations to split, its a non starter. They were warned before and will be again over the next few months, Scotland will have no currency, a large portion of national debt and dreadful oil price. Sturgeon's vitriolic speech will be her high water mark. I expect Ruth Davidson to make huge progress over the next few years.
David Cameron said that it can wait until October before the UK wishes to leave. Johnson and Gove seem to agree that there is no hurry. Seems as if those in the EU do not agree. As the EU’s institutions scrambled to respond to the bodyblow of Britain’s exit, Schulz, the president of the European parliament, said uncertainty was “the opposite of what we need”, adding that it was difficult to accept that “a whole continent is taken hostage because of an internal fight in the Tory party”. “I doubt it is only in the hands of the government of the United Kingdom,” he said. “We have to take note of this unilateral declaration that they want to wait until October, but that must not be the last word.” The UK has to negotiate two exit agreements: a divorce treaty to wind down British contributions to the EU budget and settle the status of the 1.2 million Britons living in the EU and 3 million EU citizens in the UK; and an agreement to govern future trade and other ties with its European neighbours. Tusk has estimated that both agreements could take seven years to settle “without any guarantee of success”. Most Brussels insiders think this sounds optimistic.
So nothing to worry about for expats then, if it takes longer than two years then things will remain the same until decisions are reached. German industrial leaders have already said it would be very very foolish to put tariffs on trading, Schulz will be put back in his box by his paymaster Merkel. Dead man walking Hollande will make a few noises but nobody takes any notice of him.
I am not worried for me, but for my children and grandchildren who still live in the UK. What this is about is not a few industrial companies, but how the UK has already lost some of the levers it thought it had. Seven years to try to get an agreement at best is hardly likely to help the economy. Stick a couple of fingers in someones eyes, then expect them to help you is bizarre. Read around and you will find little wish to assist from any country worldwide.
I respect your concerns but you must be able to remember the doom mongering during previous financial major upsets. The UK always seems to find a way to recover. As I have previously said when you have a government with a business friendly attitude, low taxes, flexible workforce and a thriving small business community the UK has all the ingredients to prosper. We may disagree on some things but we do agree the absence of these positives is holding back a potentially great country like France. The UK went through the necessary labour reforms many decades ago, there is no appetite to return to those days. In contrast France has yet to face some harsh realities, my guess it will not happen for years. There is no way the UK will seek to remove current EU nationals unless involved in criminal activity. The EU countries which currently is home to UK nationals also have no reason to target expats. My experience of expats in France is that they contributed greatly by buying houses normally shunned by the french, spending fortunes in Mr Bricolage!! It is however time Spain threw out all of our crooks currently living there.
With your fixation on what is wrong in France, you just completely overlook the fact that they are only one country in a Union that was designed to provide a common set of standards which help business. You have often complained about regulations imposed by the EU, but when a company has to provided a small forest of paperwork , not required at present, have their goods checked by customs, lose a great section of the international banking sector because they are looking to be where they can trade freely, then the UK economy will move towards a backwater, not head towards some glorious future.
One good thing about this referendum result is that the English are running out of scapegoats. In my time I have heard England's woes blamed upon firstly the Unions and what some on here call the loony left, then upon the EU, then upon immigration, then upon refugees, then upon Scotland.....where does it end ? Soon there is going to be no one left to blame, and then things might start changing. Maybe a possible scenario that Scotland has gone it alone (and taken the oil with them) and most of the money has gone to Frankfurt, what does England have left ? There could be a sense of Schadenfreude here but, I cannot feel this because I am so desparately sorry for the youth of the UK. who were brought up in a world of school exchanges with Germany and France, and who actually feel more European than their Grandparents, and who are more comfortable with multiculturalism - for them it's like moving back 40 years to a World they never knew. I still have not accepted the result, and never will - why should I ? Ukip would have continued agitating had they lost this and so will I, because I will never accept a World in which people are judged only according to their nationality, skin colour, religion or on 'how much they are worth' to the country.
Once again, very profound. Thank you, cologne, for helping put this day into perspective time and again. It's not pretty, it's the worst news to hit the country since WWII (economically I understand today was a bigger devaluation of our country than Sept 3, 1939), but knowing there are people still out there with decent human values gives me some heart - I'm currently situated next to a Brexit party and it feels like people celebrating 9/11.
One more question for the Brexiters on here. I can remember the 80s when Reagan and Thatcher were urging Gorbachov to 'tear down this wall', well they did, but were we ready for the consequences ? The EU. was caught unawares by the collapse of the Warsaw Pact - what were they supposed to do, leave those countries alone in the World, together with all the instability that would have caused. There was no big brother as in 1945 who could come in with a Marshall Plan for those countries, to provide the same help that Western Europe received in 1945, so, what else could have been done other than to try to integrate those countries into the existing EU. ? The success of that task is just as hard to achieve as it was to raise Western Europe again after World War 2, and ultimately only the raising of living standards in Eastern Europe will stem migration to the west - just as the post war boom ended European migration to America after 1945. Unfortunately Britain has chosen to turn its back on helping in this task.
There is now a clear split in the country, not just one, but many. The Tory party is in a total mess, the Labour party is in a total mess, the Irish situation is put back to uncertainty over the peace process and Scotland is looking to go it alone again. Do we have a politician capable of pulling it all back together again? I cannot see one. Before the agreed date for the election comes around there will be a vote of no confidence, and there will be another general election. The Tories squeaked home last time on the promise of a referendum, but they will not have that this time to prop them up. The Labour party will be fighting over who has the final say, and the SNP will be happy to use their numbers in the Commons to suit their own agenda. MP's are put there to represent the people, they are not delegates. They have to use their judgement on issues and answer to the people who put them there. Without a common purpose from Parliament the people will quickly become fed up again, and as Cologne says above, who will they have to blame this time?
They said that they would be demanding it, and they have been true to their word. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36626553
Compared to France the UK is in great position. We have a clear path to self determination away from the muddle of the EU. France is paralysed due to ineffective government and too powerful unions. France's future is bleak within the present Euro structure, it will die a slow death compared to Greece's dramatic decline but the end product will be the same.
A union that was designed to help business has destroyed thousands of businesses and lives. It has created obscene amounts of unemployment. It was a political experiment that went horribly wrong. The regulations imposed on our entire business community only affect a small percentage, adding cost and wasting much time. Most of the red tape will be ditched to create a streamlined and more effective assault on world trade.
French government official stepped in to allay fears of a breakdown in the deal. He said: On the question of immigration, to be clear, British exit from the EU will not lead to changes in terms of immigration treaties with UK. This are bilateral treaties. Do you have any further absolutely pathetic scare stories, you must really try harder. You are embarrassing yourself now.
I began posting on one of Andy's other threads, regarding the age of the for and against votes, but this post has drifted so put it here. It is the only post i shall make on the subject. i always find it odd that it is perfectly acceptable for everyone to shout 'racist' and 'xenophobe' but being ageist doesn't exist. Consider perhaps that those people over 50 may a. live a long time with the decision that has been made, it's not the right of the young to live for the next 20 years or so, and b. that this is far more about the future and safety of our children and our children's children, and that 'older' people (who to me are just people, just like the whole class debate has no swing with me either) have thought long and hard about this decision and have come to the conclusion that it's best for the future of the country. It has sickened me over the last 24 hours the amount of anti anyone over 50 posts i've seen, the vitriol from younger people, the fear of other young people who voted 'leave' and are frightened to admit it. The ugly side of humanity has come out over the last 24 hours, some of the remain people, from what i have seen, have been insulting, making it personal and taking it far enough to ruin friendships and relationships with families. Divisive doesn't seem to cover it. I am sure, as the vote was expected by journalists and politicians alike, to go the other way, the Brixiteers would have taken it on the chin and got on with it. So sad that so many 'remainers' have been so full of bitterness since the declaration. I am pleased the vote went as it did. Yes, there are uncertain times ahead, but the certainty of what was to come within the EU was enough to sway me. I do not gloat, in fact, since the decision was announced i have barely posted. I have withstood the anger of my children and will heal those rifts in time, and have put up with the look of disgust from many of my friends and the bitterness on their timelines. Most of those are thinking purely about themselves and how this affects them. I have been considering the bigger picture. I am sad that it has highlighted such division in the country, but that division has been there for a long time and it is finally time for politicians to realise that they have failed miserably in making all people feel valued and heard. If this vote does nothing else, it will wake the politicians from their comfy slumbers, and make them think about the people of the country and not just their own agendas. I'm sorry that there are people on this thread that are hurting and worried. Even Brixiteers are unsure of what is to come, since none of us have a crystal ball. But we need to remember that we live in a democracy, the vote was taken and 'leave' won. Now it's time to respect that decision, and the people who voted for it, as well as those that didn't, and start to get this country back on it's feet and make it a place to be proud of.
Please give better details. Which government official? When did he say this? You must know or you wouldn't have reported it would you? We all know that this treaty is outside the EU, which is why they said, and have, called for it to be repealed straight away.
The report did not give a name but your silly story appears every so often and you only mention the threats, never the official response from the department that actually will make the decision. Do yourself a favour, respect the referendum result and stop panicking. Unlike France we have a government in control who can make decisions without half the workforce coming out on strike. You would do better to concentrate on the huge problems France faces, they are slowly going down the pan.
Everybody will claim to have been looking at the bigger picture, Hornette, and I think the majority of Remain posters have been worried of the effect on others (notably children) rather than themselves. I fear, perhaps more than anything else, the rise in right-wing extremism across Europe that is inevitable now imho. Merkel came straight out with something that I've said throughout this affair, that I've just not heard vented at all - we have taken for granted a largely peaceful Europe since WWII. That is more in jeopardy now than since 1945. As for waking up politicians, I think this will. Argument and true debate has fallen to slogan, deliberate misinformation and scare tactics. The lunatics have taken over the asylum. And like it or like it not, the young (of whom I am clearly not one) will have to face the consequences.
There were school exchanges years before the treaties imposing political union. My wife still corresponds with her exchange partner who now lives in Munich, who she has known since the early 70's - more nonsense you are spinning. It does not matter one jot whether you accept the result of the vote or not, the people of this country have made their decision. You should worry more about the future of the EU - with Britain's net contribution lost from the Brussels coffers and more countries joining in the next few years, how will the gravy train be funded? Higher taxation coming your way. The other Eurosceptic countries in Northern Europe will see this result and will start their own journeys - the EU political union experiment is failing.
