Off Topic Politics Thread

If you say so. I'm done arguing, far too depressed for that.

Point is, the past was nowhere near as good as it's cracked up to be, and the future is looking none too bright either.

 

It's crazy crazy world - my ex wife and father voted leave but didn't really want to. My mum and dad (aged 80) weren't sure what to vote so one voted leave and one voted remain!

 

I imagine given the pre-vote projections that there were quite a few voters who voted "Leave" as sort of a protest vote, not thinking it would happen.

Also imagine there were people who were truly torn until the last day or two and it's human nature to second-guess yourself a little. So many of those people would have regrets if they'd voted "remain" and that had won.

It looks bad, but it's probably a good thing. It means that people are not rigid in their views, and willing to change their minds or assess the options. It was darn near a 50-50 vote, so it's good there are a lot of people on the fence and now reconsidering their positions, instead of 50% hardliners against 50% hardliners the other way.

 

I expect Love Thy Neighbour and Mind Your Language to make a comeback on ITV anyday soon....

 

Ah, you were there too!

 

In 2014 I voted No in a (it seems) misplaced sense of responsibility to the UK and the Union. My father and grandfather had fought for in the World Wars, after all. No kilt swaying jingoism. Now I feel like I`ve been thoroughly butt-£ucked by my pals. I wonder if the queen is purring, like she reportedly was after Cameron told her that the Scots referendum was a No. I quite like David Cameron as a bloke, although I don`t agree with his politics - I wonder who will replace him - I don`t see a credible replacement. The only sensible voice I`ve heard in this whole tawdry affair has been Nicola Sturgeon.

 

Former Liberal Party Leader Paddy Ashdown's appraisal of David Cameron in July 2015:

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Got that smack on the money.

 

I bet you do, Aberdeen. If it wasn't so f****** cold up there I'd come and join you lot.

 

Yes.
We joined because Edward Heath took us in without a vote in '73. The referendum to confirm this decision was on the basis of being in a "trading bloc" Heath lied to the public about the loss of sovereignty and the need for the UK to accept fiscal union and a common defence policy. All fine and dandy aims to put before the public ...but Heath knew that the public would reject these if told.

 

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Coincidentally, I've just tuned in to a 2012 episode of Mock the Week, on Dave.
They are discussing the EU and what would happen if we were given the vote to stay in or come out.
The best comment was "We aren't a responsible enough nation, to cope with that. We've just voted a dog as the winner of Britain's Got Talent ".
Many a true word spoken in jest.

They also touched on Boris having been born in the US, and suggested he might run for president!!! (Did he recently rescind his dual nationality, to avoid taxes over there?) What a dream team of Trump and Boris, if it were possible.

 

You're welcome any time TSS, of course!

 

Not an encouraging thought to be fair.....
......but it could be Monty Python, Fawlty Towers, Porridge,The Ascent of Man, Civilisation and I Claudius.

 

So I work in the city now for a large Hedgefund, been told that they're relocating from London in April, that's my job gone.

 

I'll tell you what you get when you let the intelligent British public decide on something. You get Boaty McBoatface. Which actually seems kind of sensible and sober given the present circumstances.

 

If they held another referendum Monday, I'd bet that Remain would win running away.

 

I think that it has got a bit nasty and personal on this thread at times, from the stereotyping to the general insults directed towards those groups that voted the "wrong" way (whichever way that might have been).
I'm disappointed to be honest because I did believe that we were better than this, that we would able to accept that other views can exist and might have validity despite conflicting with our own...I guess I was being naive.

I am a Leave voter, but I dont think I know better than the Remain camp, I made my choice based on the information I could glean from various sources and determined for myself that Leave was the choice that best fits my beliefs. Remain voters probably think the same about their choices and I respect that - obviously I dont share those beliefs or I wouldn't have voted Leave however I am mature enough to accept that other people will have come to their decisions in a similar way to mine, by weighing up what we regard as facts and basing our responses to those facts as we understand them.

Some of the things I have read, on here, on other forums and on Fb have been frankly astounding regarding the way that some people perceive members of the other voting faction. I voted Leave, but I'm not stupid, ignorant, selfish or easily led. I'm not a baby boomer, I'm not intent on dooming my children to a miserable future out of the EU, I'm just a normal working family man with the same worries and concerns that I'm sure everybody else has...the way I voted doesn't change me as a person, it doesnt make me better or worse than someone that voted to remain and I wouldn't expect to be treated any different because of my voting preferences - I'd be willing to put money on the fact that nobody would stand up, look me in the eye and say some of the things that have been said on this thread about supporters of both sides however the virtual nature of communication allows people to overstep propriety and good manners and to feel safe enough to throw around the kind of insults that would get you a right slap if you said it in the pub.

As I said earlier, I'm disappointed in the way this politics thread has degenerated at times and I wouldn't be surprised if it isn't putting some people off contributing, which is particularly sad when the general feeling is that more of us in real life are actually engaging with politics now due to interest stirred by the referendum.

I'm not going to post on this topic any more as I have already said everything I feel that I need to. It's notoriously difficult to have a reasoned debate when you can't interpret responses correctly, due to lack of visual response, lack of nuance or even a missing emoticon, and It makes discussion of such an emotive and personal topic as politics into a complete minefield just waiting to blow up in somebody's face.
I've read some interesting posts, I've been educated by some views and I've been troubled by some. Those things are all good as that is what a debate should produce for the participants however there comes a point when the positive aspects of a discussion are so lost in pettiness and name calling, the recriminations so vehement that the thread becomes an unwelcoming place.
I'd be happy to see this thread continue and will continue to dip in and out to see what people think, but perhaps I'll wait until people do not feel so personally aggrieved before I get involved again in any way.

 

Alan Sugar's twitter account is quite funny reading.

 

I am same as you

And even sadder as the uk I don't think can ever recover from this and possibility that England and Wales will be left to get in with it.

Read a statement today saying we just had been set back 40 odd years and that Great Britain had become little England and have to say I agree.

 

Okay, so what do people make of this theory from the well-regarded David Allen Green who is the law and policy man for the FT...?


Summary of his tweets this evening...


There's no reason for Article 50 not to be immediately activated upon a 'leave' victory in a referendum. With every day that passes, the activation of Article 50 seems less likely.

So, what happens next?

Cameron goes. Boris - most likely - gets into Number 10 and heads off for the talks with Europe before deciding that he isn't going to activate Article 50 after all and he advises that it's best for us to stay in the EU with some possible 'new' concessions that he can secure.

It effectively reduces everything that's happened in recent months to an underhanded plot to get Dave out of Downing Street and get Boris in.

Thoughts...



Article: https://next.ft.com/content/3073daed-7458-38ed-826b-5b6d1dc81dad

Green's tweets: https://twitter.com/DavidAllenGreen