Again it is not possible to state as fact one way or the other. It may be coincidental but it may not be. It is also possible that guilty party was just mentally ill and lost it in total and shot the nearest person, or perhaps had a grievance against the deceased that we are unaware of at this time. The reports I have read are all a bit too vague so far with lines such as "he has possible links to one extreme organisation" but it does not go in to detail as to which organisation. It is believed he does suffer with a mental illness but no expansion on what the illness is, it's just loose threads so far.
I agree that waiting is probably the best policy. However, when politicians are shot we tend to presume that it was for political reasons. The argument that he was insane and 'just lost it' does not bare up because he was armed and it was, therefore, premeditated.
To go back to my original comment, Thai, I was referring to Jo Cox's husband's moving comment on her death, not to the 'Britain first' claim, as you seemed to assume. Brendan Cox's statement: "She would have wanted two things above all else to happen now, one that our precious children are bathed in love and two, that we all unite to fight against the hatred that killed her. Hate doesn’t have a creed, race or religion, it is poisonous." I have watched your video and must say that I'm not the least convinced by it, any more than I would be by any 'twitter' comment. The media coverage at the time was being very cautious about not jumping to any conclusions about what might have motivated the murder. I certainly wasn't referring to anything specifically related to the EU Referendum.
The thing that has struck me throughout this campaign is that the outers are far more vociferous. They tap you on the shoulder (people you do not know) and say blatantly "are you in or out?" - it is quite a threatening underlying movement. I was asked at the Hawk and Owl Trus last weekend by a nice enough bloke who again I did not know "I presume you are voting out?" and he was somewhat taken aback when I said no! I hope and prey that we remain because the rag bag of the out camp are a disparate bunch of chancers without a shread of decency for the overall good of the country. Farage has never won a commons seat - how can he promise a new hospital every week? Johnson's own father says that his son is doing this purely for his own personal ends - i.e. leader of the Tories Gove's Father has said that the "story" about the loss of his father's fishing business was down to him wanting to retire and not young Michael's story about the EU killing his business. The above has nothing immediately to do with the appaling tragedy of Jo Cox. However, the way tha the National Press particularly has been stoking up hatred has probably pushed the perpatrator of her murder too far! Bang on about immigrants and try and break the fabric of our society enough and there will be a sad case of an individial - some loner or whatever buying into this nonsense, and here we are with the consequences. I feel very sad about the death of a local representative, it is not British, but the way this country is going, the vitriole of the media and the way that passions are being stoked, this may eb a conesquence that could be revisited. I will never say that the EU is prefect, it most certainly is not. But please, just imagine what will happen to this country if we vote out next Thursday. It is a fact that investment will drop and money (as has started) will be taken out of the country. By consequence interest rates will have to rise impacting on businesses and jobs. The price of goods coming into this country will rise, the price on our exports will rise through tariffs that are waived while we are in the EU. Oh yes, it is very easy to say stuff now, how we will be so much better off etc. but no outer knows for sure....they snear at all expert indicators and strut about as they know more. They are dangerous and deceitful and I fear for the moral fibre that this great United Kingdom once possessed. We need to remain and then fight the Europeans from within.
You make some very good points Thurnby, though not all are known to be factually true, but the one thing you, John Major and every other "remain" talker all overlook is the downright, proven lies spread by Cameron, Osbourne and all the other "remainers!" You pays your money and you takes your choice. Personally, I want England to be controlled by the English!
"As is almost always the case, the hearing was brief, but it had a key moment of drama - the moment the man in the dock was asked his name. He stood, as asked, for what is normally one of the most mundane parts of the proceedings. Not this time. "My name is death to traitors, freedom for Britain," he said. Asked to repeat it, he said the same thing. Then he fell silent until he was taken from the dock and driven off to prison." - BBC News I think it's safe to say his motivation was political, irrespective of political affiliation or mental illness. I heard a comment about Jo Cox on 5live the other day, someone said "I hadn't heard of Jo Cox before her death, but she makes me want to be a better person". I think that's a wonderful legacy for her to be leaving.
Indeed it does and while a "normal" person is far less likely to commit such an act that does not mean it can't happen. I am not sure if the alleged mental illness played or could have played any part in it but I am inclined to think along the lines that they were "mentally unstable" or very poorly educated. I guess another option is that he "Joe Average" and was swayed by "Right to Far Right" parties and if that is the case it is quite shocking but perhaps it should not be overlooked that such parties have come about by poor government or at least perceived poor government with the relentless push to import as many immigrants as possible in the name of Multiculturalism.
Do you really believe that, Thai, or are you just falling in with the outrageous claims made by the outers in this referendum? Yes the remain camp have made predictions which may or may not prove to be true, but they are at least supported by external, independent bodies like the IMF and the vast majority of economic experts. Farage, Johnson and Gove simply spout unsupported claims (like yours in fact) to stir up fear in those voting. Certainly there is little doubt now about the motives of Tony Mair, whatever your video may have claimed. Finally, does it not seem more than a little ironic for you to be decrying immigration in the UK when you are yourself an immigrant in Thailand? It's a bit like Nigel Farage having a German wife and decrying immigration.
I have felt this way for many years and was one of the influences in my decision to leave the UK, long before most saw (and some are still to see) the issues arising from the immigration policies (not just the UK). While there is a certain irony about me living in Thailand, I have come here to live under Thai Law and integrate and not to live my western life in another country that does not share the same values as most of the civilized west. (Most of Thailand is still 3rd world). The immigration policy here is far more in line with how I would have liked to have seen the UK adopt where it is very hard for a foreigner work to legally work, putting the Thai population first; where there are no government hand-outs or Social Security welfare payment; where only 100 people a year can claim Thai citizenship, the rest are on borrowed time providing they adhere to Thai Law. I live here on a retirement visa and have very few rights; I cannot own land or house; I cannot legally work (even if I was on a marriage Visa I still could not get a work permit); If I need a translation service - I pay for it. I don't have any issue with any of this and was well aware before making my choice and I 100% support the Thai government (when a real one is in place). That probably reads as something horrific to you but to me it makes sense to look after the indigenous population ahead of anyone else. Don't get me wrong, immigration is not a bad thing as long as it is controlled but that does not appear to be the case today, and it certainly does have the potential to become a far bigger issue 5+ years down the line unless proper and stricter controls are put in place. David Cameron, as part of the "Tory" manifesto pledge to vastly reduce the numbers of immigrants but has failed rather spectacularly (I believe the number has actually increased?) leaving no reason to believe that anything will change under the current system. While a "new" might also fail, it is a better option than sticking with what we now know is failing as the "new" system might actually work. If we stay in the EU, no new system can be created as any subsequent UK government will not be allowed to apply any controls without EU consent. Sorry but for me that is unacceptable. I guess living in Norfolk, many do not see any problem because it is not a problem in Norfolk & Suffolk as numbers are quite low but once you explore the more urban area's in central England through to North Yorkshire & Lancashire, the problems become more apparent.
A much more reasoned response, Thai. My objection was to your previous claim regarding "the relentless push to import as many immigrants as possible in the name of Multiculturalism" which is like many of the blatantly untrue claims made by the Leave side in this campaign, the latest being the objectionable and misleading propaganda embodied in UKIP's poster showing refugees in Slovenia and implying that they are on their way to Britain. It is the kind of divisive propaganda designed to stir up racial hatred by deliberately misrepresenting the situation. It may surprise you to know that I worked in Thailand off and on over a number of years on agricultural extention training courses in Chaing Mai and Bangkok. I have a huge respect for the Thai people and their country, particularly the very progessive Agro-business policies which are helping to raise the status of the country as a whole. Ironically, although we had delegates from all over Asia and Africa, however, we were not allowed to have Thais on the courses, so I know what you are talking about there as well. As for your retiring there, which I can well understand, I also think that the leave campaign pays scant respect to the over 2m Brits who are living and/or working in EU countries, including a very large number who choose to retire there, many of whom are concerned about their future if we leave the EU. None of these issues are simple and none of them will be resolved by simplistic thinking or false promises.
False promises, like the immediate admission on Friday morning by Farage that the £350m per week claim was a mistake. That's alright then, mistakes happen!
What, mistakes like joining a free trading zone and finding yourself dictated to by officials from other nations with no real recourse to challenge their decisions? Bah!
The £350m claim was made by the official leave campaign. Farage was not part of this campaign. So he is entitled to claim it was a mistake having had no influence on it being used. Its really not that hard to understand, but why let facts get in the way of hatred.
I don't think it was even a specific as that, but I might be wrong. I think the overarching point was in would be up to the UK government what the money was spent on not the EU. please log in to view this image Now I think you could say there was a high potential for the message to be misunderstood, maybe deliberately so, but that's politics. It's hardly like one side was playing by the rules and one side wasn't and there was certainly plenty of press coverage covering both sides of the arguement.
Yes Dave, think that was the quote!! I guess they're biggest problem is going to be to stabilise Sterling (and I don't mean Raheem)
I have printed evidence from the 'leave' brigade and that is exactly what it says. "The £350m per week to the EU could be spent on the NHS instead" But no assurances whatsoever that it would
No, don't worry, no need to apologise, 48 % of the country are refusing to accept a totally democratic vote for which every single legitimate vote was counted whether for or against!
These are weasel words, the inference was obvious and intended to gain favour by a vulnerable electorate, it was cynical in the extreme. had they said that the £350m could be sent overseas to boost Foreign Aid then I suspect the out team would have lost. I see that the other great people's revolution through Corbyn is also going well.
