Are you in or out then lads and lasses. Let's run our own little poll to see how it stacks up versus the main one. I'll set it up so that you can change your vote too. I'll also make it anonymous so that it mirrors the real process also.
At present I'm for out. Still keeping an open mind. Main things for me are the question of controlling access to our country and not having an open door as regardless of what benefits immigration brings we only have finite resources and we should still be able to control immigration so as to continue to have those benefits. Secondly, the ability to directly elect those in control is a factor as opposed to being subject to EU beaurocrats plays a part combined with sovereignty for ourselves. I am prepared to take the risk of the economic effect as I am not convinced it will be as bad mid to long term as some forecast. I view the economic change as an opportunity not as a threat.
I would love to know how much the 'leave' voters are basing their decesion on genuine facts of what it will really mean, vs. how much it is driven by media campaigns and so-called patriotic pride. But then this is the nation that loves X-Factor, Britain's Got Talent, Big Brother, Geordie Shore and various other mindless crap dominating what we are all supposed to think. God help us all.
Can you explain your thinking on the " So Called " patriotic pride I was born there and have always thought Britain punched well above their weight
I'm voting IN but the thing is there are basically no facts just opinions based on beliefs and assumptions. IN is the safest vote as we more or less know what we are getting along with maybe a few changes. This is not really what has made my decision though. As Penfold mentioned, change potentially could bring economic opportunity (although I am inclined to think otherwise), my vote for IN is more to do with inclusiveness. We are stronger together.
Im voting out for my daughter. House prices may fall, a few jobs may be lost, but it's all temporary and we will react, I actualluy think the global recession a few years back will prove to be more detremental than us leaving the EU. One of be biggest economy's in the world, one of the biggest consumers (bearing in mind our size) Countries will be begging to set up trade deals with us. The Germans employ millions of people in their car industry, I doubt they will want to chuck millions of jobs out just to spite us. Remember, all the statistics provided are by Government run departments many of which receive high volumns of funding from the EU, they will not say anything detremental about the EU. I get that people think the safe option is to stay, but it's wrong. Christopher Columbus could have been safer staying at home.
In for me. I don't believe Britain can grow without being part of something larger. Personally I think that most of the problems facing the country stem from our government rather than the European Parliament. This article seems to show that the European parliament is in fact as democratically voted in as our government and the fact that it's proportional representation rather than first past the post in my mind makes it more so. http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/09/what-is-the-european-union? http://www.europarl.org.uk/en/your-meps/european_elections/the_voting_system.html On top of this the main guys wanting to leave are Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson. Neither of whom I would want to hold any power in this country. Farage and the rest of the UKIP MEP's turned up less to European votes than any other party between July 2014 & July 2015 and Boris previously advocated for Turkey to Join the EU despite now using Turkey's potential membership as a reason to leave (In the spirit of full disclosure this was in 2006). BTW Turkey is years away from joining and Cyprus is likely to veto it anyway even if Turkey did meet all the pre-requisites. All strikes as a power grab from the right to me. https://www.theguardian.com/world/datablog/2015/jun/11/ukip-europe-laziest-party-parliament http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35832035
The EU is currently quietly filling holes in the UK's social and welfare provision which have been left by Osborne's cuts. If we leave the EU the change will be noticed pretty promptly in areas many people haven't considered. Add to that the very real possibility Scotland will leave the UK if we leave the EU, and that as part of their application to join the EU as a separate nation they will need to join Schengen, meaning England will have a 96-mile long land border with the free travel area and likely less control over immigration than we have currently.
People seem to be of the misguided opinion that leaving Europe will somehow make our government competent. This I truly don't understand - we have utter morons in charge and that's down to archaic laws that no longer apply, but they won't be changed because, well, money. That said, we don't have 50 people killed in nightclubs/universities on a regular basis, we don't have widespread poverty, we have free healthcare, we have excellent schooling, we have a relatively low tax rate. I understand what people are frustrated about, but immigration isn't necessarily the problem - it's control that's missing which could be rectified as part of the EU, it's also distribution of people and supporting resources that - again - is just as easily rectified as part of the EU. My personal, micro example - I live near(ish) Heathrow airport. We have no free school places, entire communities of immigrants be they Polish or Romaninan, Muslim or Sikh (not being racist, this is how it is around Slough, Southall, Hayes, Hounslow, Staines), huge traffic issues, housing issues, degradation, over-population, highest rises in council tax and so on. They are building - in areas with no school places and over-burdened transport - more and more cheap housing. The same areas. Houses on top of houses. Alongside all of this is the runway argument and Heathrow is going to win - because of money and politicians. That means this area is going to be more crowded, harder to sustain and is impacting on the people who live in it. I, as a result, am moving OUT of the area. Completely. I can't bear it anymore. It may be rude, but I don't want to go to Maidenhead and walk past a "Polski Sklep" (translation - Polish shop). This is England, I have no issue with anyone from any walk of life opening a shop, but does it have to be in non-English? I don't want signs to mosque's written in Urdu, but I don't care about mosque's. It's the dilution of England that I hate, but that's government, that's councils and that won't change leaving the EU. So I vote "in". I mean, we have politicians dedicating lives to campaigning on this rather than doing their jobs, and that's allowed - it's utterly reprehensible/risible and also unmentioned. We're a ridiculous country focusing on the wrong things.
I base my decision to leave on the basis of EU Law and a couple of miconceptions about our place in the world. They [the EU] are trying to impose a single federal law on member states based on European Civil Law and the purpose approach to judicial interpretation. Not necessarily a bad thing in terms of the latter, but the Civil Law system from countries such as France and Germany is rife with corruption. Our own Common Law system, taken to the Commonwealth and the USA is by far one of our greatest achievements. Replacing that with the EU system is simply wrong. I also don't believe for a second the scaremongering of the 'in' campaign who that economically this country will be finished. Absolute bollocks. We will still trade with the EU but will be free to negotiate our own trade deals and tariffs with international competitors. Socially, we will be able to control immigration and admit only those that address a skills shortage, those with 'special' abilities/ talents and genuine refugees that need to be protected. This country has the potential to be far more autarchical than people give us credit for. Despite what the doomongers say, we are still a fairly powerful and influential nation. That's not overblown patriotism either. It's the simple truth.
