Will we ever be a top performing club again?

Of course City, United and Chelsea under performed compared to their budgets, that's just stating the bleeding obvious.

But you've swerved the salient point i.e. that the gap in quality between the 'elite' and the rest has significantly narrowed. Therefore the vast advantage that the Sky 4 of old had over the rest has been consigned to history. Yes, in theory the biggest spenders should still come out on top, but the margin for error they now have is much smaller. The league has changed in recent years to deny that simple and obvious fact is plain daft.

 

• The fact that good players are important and that more clubs have their share of these good players is obvious.
  
  What is still the most important factor is the manager. Who messed up the top teams or didn't deliver? Van Gaal, pellegrini, Mourinho (at Chelsea last season). Who gelled their teams? Ranieri and Poch.
  
  One of the best examples of the importance of the manager: Ferguson taking a distinctly average side (by common consensus not even among the top 2 or 3 squads in the premiership) to win the title by 11 points in his last season.

 

Ferguson ruled by total fear... he demanded 100% effort but also played a style of football about possession and about pace and width.

I would say that city under performed that year too... they really tailed off with mancini on the ropes.

the fact is ranieiri walked in to his job and won it first time of asking... most rare.. poch has had 2 years at it soo you'd expect them to imporve again next year

 

Have to factor in that the big clubs in the PL have been declining strength wise since 2008 or so.

Yes the West Hams etc have got better but it's been more a case of meeting in the middle.

The big sides are not helped by the money demanded from them for players or the strength of the PL as potential signings are guaranteed titles if they move to any of the other top leagues.

The PL at the moment is there for teams with a clear identity and plan in place. Stability + strategic signings made by any of the major clubs could see them dominate the next few years. So at the moment City look well placed.

The other big factor in 'big' clubs is their worldwide appeal, which is still dominated by the 'Sky four'. It will take a long time for a kid from the favelas to grow up with a Lee Cattermole poster on his wall

 

Next season we gonna be a top 4 teknoclub then go on DJ teknklopp's mental euroteknotour

 

I personally think Spurs could have a hangover season not too dissimilar to Liverpool in 2003, 2010 and 2015.

Both Leicester and Spurs could be subject to asset stripping with inflated offers received following the Euros. I feel Leicester would buy better value replacements.

 

you assume.

I'll say it again. the rest didn't get any better they "elites" grossly under performed" the evidence is stark. European blunders abound and so do the sackings by owners who won't tolerate it.

I think its quite quite funny that you've been giddily running about boasting about your clubs new spending power but are hammering this line that spending doesn't matter.

You are assuming this gap is consigned to history rather than a temporary blip. simply put money talks. at one point Newcastle were in the top 4. then Chelsea and LFc took over, then city came along... and took over.. all big money.

I'm afraid you just want to believe your team can do miracles but the reality is money will talk and will continue to do so. The level of quality on display is woeful but the pay day is huge in the prem for the most average player if they can score a deal.... so when it comes down to it the cream will rise to the top. I've not ignored anything I'm merely stating that this view that leicester will repeat the trick or get top 4... well its not really what i agree with.

 

might happen. much depends on their purchases and priorities.

Having half their team play for England isn't ideal for them either. I think they have a good shot at least being consistent again.

 

Sorry but that's a complete crock of **** MITO.

You've added your own imaginary narrative to my actual comments and ignored the salient points of what I actually said......

The PL is now awash with cash at a level that sets it absolutely miles ahead of all but the crème de la crème of the European elite.

Therefore mid range PL clubs can offer fees and wages at a level that the vast majority of European sides simply can't match. So we've had mid range PL sides signing players of a quality that they'd have not had a whiff of 5 or 6 years ago. Bojan and Shaquiri at Stoke come to mind as examples.

The increase in quality across the spectrum has shortened the gap between the elite - who can still land the supposed 'best of the best' and the rest. No-one is arguing that the big clubs still can't outspend the rest on fees and wages you donut. The point is that the rest can afford a level of player that is far closer in terms of quality than they had before. Therefore to maintain their edge their sides have to performance at their pinnacle to defeat sides that only a few years ago they were brushing aside, as the vast chasm in quality is no longer there, so the net gain afforded by the clubs with the larger budgets has diminished.

As for my club and your own twisted version of my psyche, we're now in a better position than we've been in for donkeys years, with cash to spend and hopefully the right man being given the purse strings. However, there's no guarantees that we'll a) get the right man and b) he'll buy the right players (see Brendan Rodgers for details), but it makes it exciting for an Evertonian, what's wrong with that? I've made no predictions on what we'll do next season or whether the new owners plan for the football side of the business will come to fruition, but it promises to be an interesting time for us, and certainly more exciting than the umpteen previous seasons when we've not had a pot to piss in until the Sky cheque cleared in August.

 

and you have not?

where have i mention european elites at all in this.. we were talking prem. all i said is the evidence shows that the tops clubs have gotten worse and their performances in europe proved it.. as does the sacking of the managers for unacceptable levels.

with respect to bojan he did woeful round europe and nobody wanted him. fair play to stoke for giving him a go.

Shaqiri was run out of intr with his tail between his legs... again... no great scoop there. He rejected us then flopped at inter.

when utd land zlatan for 400k per week I'm sure that will be run.. by the logic you have everton might as well match it and see what happens.

only 2 years ago city won 11 in a row to land the title on 90 points... you think they can't go do that if they were bothered... compared ot leicester or west ham?

all I'm saying is theres no rising tide, its real poor management of top sides thats lead to this one off year... theres just a **** load of money pouring in one end and out the other... when we see players at west ham who'd be considered very average get 80k cos their contract was running out (winston reid) well.....

I've not said its not exciting for you...I've aid on one hand you are boasting about your new stadium and new money thats over and above the tv money as you've told us all about your billionaire... then tell me on the other that everyone's got so much it doesn't matter. that doesn't add up.

the truth is you had to piss every penny of prior seasons sky money down the pan like the rest of the clubs on fat wages and those fat wages within 2/3 years will be doubled again.. its inevitable for all clubs.

frankly when LFC have a child like canos thinking he can get 10k so i'm off cos you offered 4 and i can get 10 of watford... then thats where the issues will become stark. finding a reliable 15/16 players with the hunger to play 38 lousy games at high intensity will be an issue.... and those mid table expectations will still be there..w with higher wages and higher ticket prices etc.

 

Boasting? I've made one post on the subject and it was 1 sentence long, and it was nothing more than the current facts as they stand.

I think someone doesn't like the prospect of that coming to fruition and is pissing their kecks about it

 

ah you pick out the stadium and ignore the rest of the boasting ......

just admit i'm right you can't have cake and eat it. either your billionaire will propel you up or you don't need him like stoke don't.

 

You were trying to argue that the status quo will soon return and the elite will be back in a row. I've said the converse, and that the much evenly contested league will continue for the foreseeable.

It's not just poor management that's resulted in the closing of the gap, the managers don't cross the white line, the gap has been closed by the disparity in quality between the best and the rest closing.

You also say that 'performances in Europe prove it' - Prove what? City have binned Pelligrini and he got them to a CL SF and yet could only scrape 4th. You lot got to the EL final and came 8th domestically. Arsenal got done by Barca - hardly a shocker like. United were durge in the CL, and ran into you lot in the CL. Chelsea were too busy tanking for Mourinho to care.

 

So I didn't 'boast' about a stadium then...thanks for clearing that up

Also post the comments where I've said that money will propel us up the table. Thanks in advance

You seem to have trouble comprehending the simple point made. Money in itself doesn't guarantee you of anything. It should give you a better chance, but it's far from a given - especially now in 2016 in the PL, due to the fact that the league is awash with cash.

p.s. Stoke are owned by a Billionaire

 

The Echo asked not to dissimilar question last night.


Why did Moshiri stop just short of a majority stake in Everton FC?

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/moshiri-stop-just-short-majority-11380425


Get looking for those old shares in the attic Tobes, you might hold the key to Everton's future.

 

Don't think that's a big deal unless it goes like leeds owner which is highly unlikely.

I hope everton do build their docklands stadium.

 

Typical of the RS Echo that.

If they'd have bothered themselves to find out, then they'd have found that there's an agreement in place for Moshiri to buy up the rest of Kenwrights and his cronies shares at a price already set. Which will take him to 75%.

 

Think it will need another couple of years of big money across the board to see if this season was a blip or start of a trend.

Looking at the last five years league tables there's little variation in the points range from 5th to 10th and 11th to 17th but not sure that tells the story much this early.

You'd expect improved mid to lower table teams to continue to take points off each other as much as now taking them off "the supermoney" teams so this might account for the consistency.

I think there's a bit of both..a warning shot to the superteams that money isn't always going to save the day...the best opportunities for a good manager yes but not a guarantee if he's not or he picks the wrong players just because he can afford to pay them.

Works the same for the lower half teams..more money gives them more transfer opportunities than before if they can convince players to come and if they have a manager that knows what to do with it. Will it take a few years to also change the set up and mentality that these teams had prior to big money? In other words do they know what to do with it any better than those teams like us who have spunked it away for years?

Does anyone think if you threw Aston Villa 150 million at the start of the season their set up from top to bottom wouldn't still have fecked it royally?

I think City, Chelsea, United and Arsenal are used to a big money set up and have more to make mistakes with but...if Us, Spurs, Southampton, Westham and yes Leicester and Everton can all get the set up right to be "pouncers" then you could start to see one or two of those four dropping out every year to be replaced by two of the pack...might be a different two going down and up each year but it'll make it more interesting for sure.

A downside at the bottom half of the table is much bigger pressure on managers to do well. "You've had 60 million to spend this year!" Will be the cry...expect the managerial merry-go-round to get even worse...

 

There's an article I read earlier along the lines of Who Could Jose Take from Everton and Liverpool?

They then listed 3 Everton players, Stones, Barkley, Lukaku and moved on to Liverpool and went with Sturridge but probably not.

 

whats the foreseeable then? 5 years?

I keep saying its under performance while the others are stil lthe same old... if thats a gap closing to you and a rising tide ok but i don't agree

Performance in europe has PROVED how poorly the top clubs in england have performed.. the fact italy kept catching us shows that but there was a time we were tops in europe now we are lucky to get past last 16... really simply. City got really lucky this year in europe.. they have been ocnistently gash over his entire reign. this year they got kiev in round of 16 after winning thier group and managed to beat psg in QF. in prior years they've crawled into last 16 and lost to the top european clubs.

Arsenal have been poor for years.. last 16 is enough? no its not.

same for utd.. moyes reached QF then no CL, then van gall was abysmal this year.

none of that is down to managers?

for 5 or more years we've been consistently sinking down and taking less and less coefficent points... the best measure of each win and each draw and each round got to....

I'll happily predict city, cheslea and utd will radically improve next season... while the rest sit about in what YOU call mid table and will be quite happy.