Off Topic Impact of Brexit on Football

JKC bor, please accept my apologies for not dealing with your correspondence fully but tonight is domino night. As I'm short of time I'll answer your last statement, yes sovereignty is a major issue with me but then so is the immigrant question. Did you see on tv news tonight that warning that the EU faces opposition from people if it doesn't get the immigration under control. Merkel is already having problems in Germany with her policy of allowing in immigrants. I no't champing at the bit, just being polite and answering you in the time I have available.

 

Excellent article here on whether sovereignty is actually something worth worrying about. It's actually more balanced than the deliberately provocative title.

https://www.chathamhouse.org/sites/...britain-eu-sovereignty-myth-niblett-final.pdf


It's a very different point to whether the EU is sufficiently democratic of course. The farce about those bemoaning the EU's supposed democratic problems is that of course the UK's political situation is substantially less democratic, but you don't hear the same people getting rabid about those problems...

 

BUT ROB! MUH SOVEREIGNTY! Are you suggesting that the Brexiters have been scaremongered into thinking PRECIOUS SOVEREIGNTY is at stake?

Parliament can simply repeal the European Communities Act of 1972 and we’d be out.
MPs could do it now without a referendum if they wanted. Such is the power of a sovereign nation

 

This is the sort of protection I was referring to:

Google faces record three billion euro EU antitrust fine

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-google-eu-idUSKCN0Y60J4
(16.05.16)

 

In a definition sense so are all of us, but do you really have greater affinity to identifying yourself as European than british? Would you really back UK tax spending on Eastern european countries ahead of those in need here or even those not entirely in need but payed the tax in the first place? Should we have been helping to improve other countries roads like Ireland when ours are riddled with pot holes and often barely fit for purpose? If it was the tax dodging richest few that were enabling this I wouldn't mind, but it is all of the lower earning majority that suffer in the long run. If things had been run as a common market without all of this political meddling, maybe those nations that come to europe cap in hand could trade there way to affluence rather than depend/drag the rest down.
Totally selfish as someone who was mearly lucky enough to have been born into a nice rich western country but I don't want to have my bin collections go down to once a month because resources are further stretched. Or wait 3 weeks longer for an important operation.

Bah!

p.s. i do enjoy one of your good ramblings!

 

I honestly do personally identify rather strongly as 'European'. I speak German (not quite fluently, but I'm getting there. I've been taking formal lessons and exams with the Goethe Institut for just over 4 years now, and was learning on my own before that), spend a fair amount of time on the continent for both business and pleasure, and have a number of friends from several different European countries.

Granted, naturally, I also identify as 'British', but I wouldn't go as far as to say I was considerably more 'British' than 'European'. It's hard to measure I suppose.

As for the UK effectively subsidising the less economically-developed countries within the EU, I'm OK with it within reason. I don't see the EU as something which MUST benefit the UK in absolute terms. I accept that membership has its drawbacks for the UK, but on balance I've come to realise that I'd prefer to be part of it.


P.S. Ha! Don't lie!

 

Define absolute terms? If the EU is not to benefit the UK as a member then what would be the point for us?
The EU is not a trade agreement, it is a layer of unelected, excedingly expensive and crooked burocracy that needs total reform to be anything approaching an acceptable organisation to run the continent. In my opinion if we stay in we are accepting that leadership and that corruption to continue doing what it is doing.
If this leadership is fit for purpose why are populations across europe rallying against it? Is it because they ignore the people they weren't chosen by who pay their wages?
There are as you say many good things and many bad things that the EU does. I just think the bad out weighes the good and that we need to stop the inexorable march towards the Euro for all and the destruction of many european nations identities, customes and independance.

bah!

 

By 'absolute terms' I mean that I accept the EU membership isn't always a positive for the UK.
The point is that, unlike you, I believe the positives outweigh the negatives.

I want the UK to be part of that reform.

 

By leaving we can kick start it, the EU will have to adapt to survive, because I think our exit will be the first domino. There is plenty of ill will towards the EU throughout the EU and it seems to be growing. We leave and it will have to challenge itself to actually serve the people within it's boarders or watch it implode. Just because we vote out does not mean we can play no future part. It will have to go someway before it becomes an organisation worthy of voting back in, or of course we could be so useless out of the block that we despirately will want back in. Or have I been listening to to much scaremongering!

Bah!

 

It's stuff like dodgy Dave's last night that are making a mockery of this referendum. Isil and Russia will love a Brexit! Have they anounced this in foreign policy? Scaremongering at it's worst. Although maybe not quite worst!

Bah!

 

To be fair, Putin is pretty much the only major world leader that has expressed his desire for the UK to leave the EU.
As for Daesh, I can't comment.

 

It's not scaremongering if it's true.

And it is true. Putin wants us to leave the EU. A former AQ member turned British intelligence forces operative stated over a month ago that so-called IS would view it as victory and they have been planning terror attacks to influence the vote:
http://time.com/4293818/aimen-dean-isis-brexit/

 

Fair play Putin would love the break down of europe, but I can't see how it would threaten Europe in a waring sense with NATO or any more than it is already, The Crimeans are probably not feeling safe because the EU is so good and special.
I really don't see how they can say we would be at more risk from IS. Europe maybe, but with the possiblity of controlling our boarders and making our own policy, we would surely be safer. I know that's a bit "I'm alright Jack" but as long as the eurocrats continue policy that allows unchecked imigration, with estimates of thousands of IS interlopers then we be better off out!

Bah!

 

I'm not sure he's saying that we would be at an increased risk from so-called IS. From what I remember he said they would want us to Brexit - it's a propaganda victory for them even though they would have nothing to do with it (unless they bomb us again and then claim that's what caused it). They would say that their enemies are fractured and infighting, so it's not hard to see that these fundamentalist nutters probably do want it.

It's a bit like Trump and Marine Le Pen saying they support Brexit. That on its own tells me I should definitely vote Remain (let alone the weight of economic, constitutional and moral arguments, which are resounding and conclusive).

 

Admittedly Trumps endorsment is about as damaging as it gets for everyone but the die hard Brexiters who could never change their mind even if guarantees were offered they would be worse off and barely able to feed themselves. That said some might identify with his stances over muslims and mexicans, (he should seek sponsorship from M&M's)
Le Pen I can understand, her country is being mullered by the Euro, losing it's identity through imigration (Though arguably that has as much to do with their empire as the EU) has worse problems than Britain with cultural division. If I was French her appeal would be obvious too. If they exited the EU and more importantly the Euro they may well be able to give creditable guarantees greater prosperity on leaving, certainly more than us as we still retain our currency control and they don't.

Bah!

 

Can you imagine Boris and IDS and Grove all right wing politicians running the country.. That is what we will get if we come out and that will be the middle lower classes worst nightmare. Jesus we should not even joke about that happening it's too frightening....

 

Balderdash

#voteleave

#brexit

 

You really couldn't make it up

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...mes-open-borders-send-population-soaring.html

 

Whenever you post stuff like this from the Daily Mail, I always look to see if they've provided a link to the document or report that they mention, much in the same way that more legitimate news sources do (Times, Guardian etc).

The Mail very rarely does. It very rarely provides a direct link to the source. Forgive me for taking anything the Mail says with a large pinch of salt, as they clearly wouldn't want anyone reading the original source themselves and making their own mind up.

 

As it's the mail, they probably did!

Bah!