We have to get an experienced manager and stop experimenting on insiders and unknowns. Alex Neil is out of his comfort zone and doesn't know how to fix it. I put the problem for this firmly at the door of the Board/directors, they need to understand that NOW we've made so many bad/cheap decisions in the past. Put the money into that area to start with!
If AN had a couple of quality CB's in the mould of Klose and we'd secured a more prolific striker (more prolific than 5 goals you say?????), I dare say we'd have a few more points on the board, we'd be safe and most fans would be giving AN a pat on the back for a solid foundation season in the PL to move on from. It's fine margins as the run in has demonstrated and we've not been good enough. I'm inclined to blame board and hiring leadership ahead of AN.
I agree with that, but most of us were happy with the January transfer dealings at the time. The injuries to Tettey, and Klose have had a big effect on the run-in (Sunderland had key players coming back from injury while those were going out). The PL is all about fine margins. I really don't want a new manager who would need to start all over to build a squad. AN was very effective in the Championship and he should at least be given until Christmas to build a promotion push. We have a good squad to do that and young players to provide potential as well.
I'm more thinking end of September/10 games in and again at Xmas. If we are not playing well and or out of touch with the top 2 then I would be tempted to bin him. He has the advantage of continuity and a full preseason to hit the ground running. I had a look and last season the top six at the finish were all in the top 7 except Wednesday who were 10th and 7pts from the top. Brighton and borough were top 2 with Burnley 4pts back in 7th. Wednesday at that point were averaging 1.5pts per game so this should be a minimum target. So after 10 games I think it's fair to say if we are lower half or >7pts off top, we are failing and we should consider his position. 1 Brighton and Hove A 10 4 1 0 6 2 2 3 0 8 6 +6 22 2 Middlesbrough 10 4 0 1 11 2 2 2 1 6 5 +10 20 3 Reading 10 2 2 1 7 2 3 1 1 9 5 +9 18 4 Birmingham City 10 2 1 2 7 7 3 2 0 9 3 +6 18 5 Hull City 10 3 2 0 8 3 2 1 2 5 4 +6 18 6 Burnley 10 3 1 1 9 6 2 2 1 5 5 +3 18 7 Derby County 10 1 3 1 5 4 3 2 0 7 3 +5 17 8 Cardiff City 10 3 1 1 7 4 1 3 1 7 7 +3 16 9 Wolverhampton Wndrs 10 2 2 1 8 5 2 1 2 7 6 +4 15 10 Sheffield Wednesday 10 3 1 1 10 7 1 2 2 5 7 +1 15 At Xmas things have taken further shape with None of the top 6 below 7th. With our poor country cousins the ones to give up 6th for them. 1 Middlesbrough 22 8 2 1 17 2 6 2 3 16 10 +21 46 2 Derby County 22 6 4 1 21 8 6 4 1 12 5 +20 44 3 Brighton and Hove A 22 8 2 1 15 10 3 8 0 16 13 +8 43 4 Hull City 22 8 2 1 19 6 4 3 4 12 10 +15 41 5 Burnley 22 7 2 2 21 11 3 6 2 9 9 +10 38 6 Ipswich Town 22 3 5 3 13 12 6 2 3 18 17 +2 34 7 Sheffield Wednesday 22 6 4 1 19 10 2 5 4 13 17 +5 33 Whether we should keep him at Xmas then comes down to the clubs ambition for the season relative to our performance. We should be aiming at auto promotion so I would say Burnley came form 8 pts behind borough who finnished in second to finish 4 pts above them, so we should be a maximum of 12pts behind to have a realistic chance of auto promotion. So Mr Neil, hit that ground running! Bah!
I wasn't I even highlighted the fact that we needed another CB and that if Klose got injured we were in the sh1t, something that was dismissed by many posters. I'm not sure the loss of Tettey has made much difference. It was the injury to Klose that has had a massive impact, just think for a moment where we would be now had we spent the funds we clearly had on 2 CB's of Klose's quality last summer. I would also dispute that AN was very effective in the championship. He inherited a squad that had done well for periods in the championship under a very inexperience manager and was generally punching well below it's weight. One of the things he did was to bring Bassong back in to the fold, which was certainly a double edge sword and again something I said at the time I felt was not a good idea, particularly in the long term. Indeed the type of performances we have displayed recently are not dissimilar to the ones we were turning out under Adams & Hughton. He's been in the driving seat now for 18 months. Generally the players he has brought in have not been a roaring success and have been mainly midfielders, despite it generally being accepted that this was our strongest area and done little to address the obvious issues with our defenders and strikers. He has also made constant and at times what appears to be unnecessary changes to team selection. He may well have the ability to become a very effective championship / PL manager and I would like to see him given a chance next season, the summer transfer market and 6 weeks to 2 months of next season should be more than enough to see if he has the ability to learn from his mistakes. If not, I would sack him in a heartbeat and get in an experienced manager.
But it's NOT a solid foundation season, it's an embarrassing failure. I agree the board are culpable for hiring an unknown, that's why we need someone with experience!
Now don't be facetious Dave there are plenty around and it doesn't matter whether they're employed or not if you're prepared to pay the money. As I've just posted over on the 'Alex Neil' thread, I'd steal Nigel Pearson from under Villa's noses
If we lose Alex Neil then I would be worried about dropping down to league 1 again. Know I and others keep saying this but he is still very young and still a lot to learn, yes he has made mistakes this season but he would have gained experience from it and he did well in the Champioship last season, so it would seem like madness to sack him now.
Perhaps next time, if there is a next time, we will have learnt our lesson and we won't take a punt on a Rookie manager when there's so much at stake
Maybe if we didn't take a punt on a rookie manager we wouldn't have got promoted in the first place...
Correct me if I'm wrong, KIO, but we took a punt on AN when what was at stake was gaining promotion and he did that. He's hardly a rookie now with 3 years as a manager under his belt. Who would you suggest instead?
I can understand this sentiment, but there has been so little evidence of learning in this second half of the season. I neither think it would be madness to keep him or sack him. The board certainly seem to be outwardly backing him to be manager next season. So I hope you and they are right. As I said in #144 if after 10 games and then Xmas he's not meeting certain targets I would hope that we would already have some idea about who we could recruit to replace him, the trouble with this stratergy is that People of the calibre of Pearson will likely be snapped up and we either have the same olds or the up n comer gambles, in which case you may as well stick with AN! Bah!
I'll re-phrase that, perhaps next time, if there is a next time, we won't stick with a Rookie manager when it's obvious things aren't working out
I think your argument in #144 is quite valid, GM. My only cautionary comment would be about where Burnley were after 10 games and where they finished the season. I think that may depend on how many new players we have to 'bed in' in the early games.
I think that we should stick for now. I can't bring myself to suggest Nigel Pearson, he is totally bloody nuts as witnessed by last time in the premier league. He is just as well to go off his rocker than do well. Not to mention embarrassing the club in process. I give AN the first 6-7 games. If we are anything other than top 4 at that point I think we should be looking at a change.
Now then Dave, I never mentioned either of them. Brendan Rogers is NOT going back to Swansea by all accounts, Roberto de Matteo is looking for a new job, there's loads of them, we need to step up to the plate and make a BIG decision, otherwise it's Yo Yo for ever!
