I think we have to look at this situation from a dispassionate perspective for a moment, because the whole wenger in/wenger out debate has become poisonous. What he have is a situation where at some point in the near future a massive club is going to replace it's long term and hugely successful manager. It's like man Utd all over again when they replaced Fergie. So you have to ask yourself, what is the standard that this new manager must attain. It's unacceptable for a club like Arsenal not to be playing CL football, so top 4 is a must. We expect Arsenal to be in the market for the top players, so this new manager must have appeal with players and be a coach who will develop their careers. Fans are saying that trophies are a must, so he also has to deliver silverware. It is a big ask so this new man has to be at the top of his game to successfully manage Arsenal. Personally, I don't think it's the type of situation where we can just take a punt and hope for the best as, I've said many times before, people who want Wenger out in my opinion don't always consider just how far we could fall if we get it wrong. If the right person comes along then I'm all for it, but at the moment I think Wenger should continue.
Or what prizes could come our way as we are finally move beyond touching distance of success. Why are people afraid of change. I'm not worried about the quality of playing personnel. The squad just needs a motivator. A passionate force to drive them on. We are stuck in a cycle. I can almost tell you how next season is going to play out with Wenger still there. It has been the same script for years.
People aren't afraid of change. It's making sure that the change is an improvement that is the issue.
Wenger is tactically rigid. The times he has adapted we've got results, but he seems to revert to type. The club are too conservative in the transfer market. Ozil and Sanchez are hopefully a sign of things to come, but we miss out on too many good players. As much as Wenger likes to talk about mental strength, it's the one thing that we seem to lack when it really counts. I don't know if that's Wenger's fault or the players. I also have to mention some of our fans, they don't seem to get the concept of getting behind the team when they need us. If you go to St James' Park, Anfield, even White Hart Lane, the fans will be fully behind the team. Whereas some of our lot just sit there and wait to be entertained and then moan and boo when it doesn't go right. I think a really passionate crowd really helps to motivate the team.
Fair enough. Just wanted to know what your feelings are. On the fans, I agree that the atmosphere at home is generally quite poor. Do you not think this Emirates stadium 'culture' which seems to be what the club have created on purpose is to blame? Stewards telling fans to sit down. There's this arrogance (if that is even the right word) in the air sometimes, like we are too good to sing just like other basic clubs' supporters. "Our football is like opera so no standing and making noise" type of attitude. The blandness at the stadium comes across on TV too. It all feels stale. A new energy is needed across the board in my opinion, and a younger, boisterous manager can bring that.
Do think the hospitality section of the stadium has diluted the support compared to HIghbury. I understand the need to generate money but you get almost zero noise from a massive section of the ground. I used to get free tickets from my friend to sit there and the looks you'd get from the people around you if you stood up, let alone sang was frightening! Free beer and entry obviously offset this somewhat but it is depressing.
It is difficult to let loose at the Emirates. It doesn't help that we have to pay so much and then not getting a return on the pitch. And then you can't make any noise and back the team cos you're worried about getting shut down.
No it isn't. United had to replace one of the best and most successful managers ever who left a very average and overachieving squad. It has little in correlation to how Arsenal are now. Why though? Is it just unacceptable because of the money we'd miss out on? It's not like the the CL actually provides us with any success or too many classic European nights. We've accepted mediocrity for years but you find it not acceptable to not be in the CL? Why? Agreed. Are they? Does he? Not really. We've put up with not winning anything major for years. If a new manager can simply show ambition, player development and a will to improve I'm fine with no trophies for quite some time. So what, we're a big club... we want a manager who thrives under 'big asks'. It would be nice to think he does, but ultimately, let's be honest... he doesn't. But that depends on what you call 'successfully' managing us. The board have shown repeatedly they don't care if their manager is at the top of the game or not so they'll be little pressure there. And the fans will give any new manager quite some time I would have thought give how much time they've given Wenger. Yes, you repeat this a lot but there's no substance to it. Just as many clubs don't fall so the trend you seem to insist is there doesn't exists. Get more comfortable on that fence.
United's struggles and sh*te football with Moyes and LvG have shown how wrong it can go and even Citeh with all the cash flashing can't seem to get it right at the moment. Just shows it's not that easy. FWIW I think there are enough strong candidates out there for us to approach and with the money in English football I'd suspect very few managers can't be tempted. If I had the power to do it I'd give Arsene the biggest of hugs...and bring in Simeone + xxx amount of cash to spend in the summer. Pretty sure I don't have that option though so best get used to another season of top 4 football and Champions league.
Cini, you say our being in the CL isn't important; "Is it just unacceptable because of the money we'd miss out on? It's not like the the CL actually provides us with any success or too many classic European nights. We've accepted mediocrity for years but you find it not acceptable to not be in the CL? Why?" It's important to be in the CL if you want your new manager to tempt top class players, isn't it?
Not taking the piss but after winning the fa cup for 2 years in a row for you put him in the last chance saloon shows how little support he has left.
I think that's what it's come to, to be honest. I'm one of Wenger's biggest defenders on here and I think we did brilliantly to win back to back FA cups, but the league and the CL are our aims for a club of our size. Personally I think that with a top striker and a midfield enforcer, Wenger can win the league and the CL, but his time is running out and he needs to be decisive in the transfer market this summer if it's going to happen.
So basically you're happy to accept less than Wenger is already delivering (CL and trophies) as long as a new manager shows 'ambition'
Agree. The problem for me when they built Emirates, was that they split up all the people who used to stand (then sit) and sing together. The North Bank and the Clock End were the heart and soul of Highbury. When I used to go there I would come home absolutely hoarse from singing and shouting non stop through the game. At the Emirates though, you are just as likely to find yourself sitting next to a family with young children or foreign tourists, who have every right to be there, but are they really up for shouting, swearing and singing ? One of the things I dislike about the modern crowd at Arsenal (and other places) is this idea that they will only cheer and sing if the players perform and entertain. There is a bit of a 'We've paid a lot of money to be entertained, so I'm not cheering until you do so' mentality. I know some games can be a dirge,and I agree that the players sometimes need to give the crowd something to cheer about, but in my opinion (and I'm old school) the fans are there to lift the players and give them their support, even when things aren't going well. As I've said before, the concept of the 12th man seems completely lost on some of our fans. What really ****s me off though is when fans boo our players and manager, as far as I'm concerned if you do that, then you might as well be cheering on the opposition. Also as you mention the stewarding tries to make people sit down which quashes the atmosphere too. I know modern stadiums are all seater and health and safety is paramount, but there is another way, safe standing ..... but that's probably a whole other thread.
"It is remarkable to think that from the 18-man matchday squad for the Champions League semi-final, second leg against Chelsea at Stamford Bridge in 2014, which Atlético won 3-1 to advance to the final, there were only four survivors for the Bayern tie on Tuesday. It would have been five but Tiago is out injured while Gabi, the captain, was unavailable at Chelsea. The quartet were the defenders Diego Godín, Juanfran and Filipe Luís, and the midfielder, Koke. Gone are Thibaut Courtois, Arda Turan, Diego Costa, Toby Alderweireld, Diego and David Villa. Simeone has introduced and created new stars such as the goalkeeper Jan Oblak, the centre-half José Giménez, the wingers Saúl Ñíguez and Yannick Carrasco, and the striker Antoine Griezmann, who is the veteran of the bunch at 25. The others are 23 or under. Renewal has been a principle theme of the Atlético story. Vieira left and Beloved has been in transition ever since. A logical, commonsensical excuse apparently. Needless to say, THEY argued, no one else could do half the job of Wenger in such conditions. Absolutely. Some would be too ashamed to turn up for work!" Interesting point
If, in the long run, it pushes us forward then why not? We should be looking at the long game. And... To be clear... To finish top 4 is not a trophy or achievement we should be happy about being "delivered". All it has allowed us to so is play in another competition from which we've had no glory at all and only a handful of classic nights.
The CL not only attracts the prestige of playing in the comp, it also rewards the club financially and encourages players to join us. Basically if you want the top players then you have to be in the CL As for the manager situation, let's just take the names out of the equation for a moment. What you are saying is that you'd be happy to swap a manager who is delivering CL football each season and major trophies for one who delivers nothing but has 'ambition'. It makes no sense whatsoever.
