Match Day Thread +++++Saints v Man City 1st May 2016 4:30pm+++++

I don't remember seeing that before either. But I think he got frustrated because we took so long about it.

 

Apologies if already posted but Dusan Tadic is only the 4th player to assist 3 goals in more than one PL game ever. The other 3: Eyal Berkovic, Cesc Fabregas and Thierry Henry.

 

Hmm. OK, has anyone seen it happen before?

Vin

 

The only thing the game must allow the time to take is a penalty.

 

No but I've done it myself when a team pissed around for too long.

 

Probably not recommended though.

 

I get what you're saying, but my answer would be no, there is no stat, but you can tell by using your eyes!

 

Clive Thomas was the most famous ref to do this.
Second stain has recently read his autobiography, so will probably know more.

I think it was Brazil in a World Cup. He famously blew the whistle just as they took the corner. It was nodded in seconds later

 

1974 World Cup group game v sweden. 1-1

 

Okay. But teams should have been afraid of Morgan Schneiderlin as well. More so even than Clasie, wouldn't you agree? And, if teams are reluctant to take on Clasie, then there should be very few times he is "dribbled past." He wouldn't make or attempt that many tackles because teams would immediately slow down their attack and play the safe pass rather than risk challenging him.

Yet Schneiderlin averaged 3.9 tackles per 90, whereas Clasie averages 2.5. Schneiderlin averaged 4.3 tackles attempts last year, whereas Clasie averages 3.9. Schneiderlin was dribbled past 1.4 times per 90, whereas Clasie is dribbled past 2.4 times per 90. Same manager, same playing partner for the most part.

I know the comparison wasn't between Clasie and Schneiderlin, and I think we all agree Schneiderlin is better. But that's kind of the point. The stats actually confirm what our eyes see. Even if there is no direct stat for "times opposition wussied out against player" the stats we do have paint what appears to be an accurate picture even without that.

 

Actually I'm halfway through and very interesting reading it is too. I gave it the quickest of quick scans through first and I've never read a book that wasn't Saints oriented that was so complimentary to Lawrie McMenemy. He thinks Lawrie is the bees knees. Also, Thomas has/had an extremely poor opinion of Don Revie and a pretty high one of Brian Clough, so basically, he's all right by me.

As to the Brazil goal scored by Zico, he mentions it in the first paragraph on page one. Basically, he let the ball become in play and then blew his whistle for the end of the match because his watch indicated that time was up. He says...

I didn't do it deliberately, of course I didn't. I was not to know that Brazil would 'score' when that corner-kick was taken. My watch told me that time was completed. To have blown before the corner was taken would have been dishonest: to have waited until the ball went dead would have been dishonest.

Honesty is a big part of Clive Thomas's character, so this book indicates. I'd say that's a virtue in a referee.

 

You just are not getting the very first point I made. You are trying to turn this into a stat thing and you really are misinterpreting what was said by me. No-one is referring to a player who has "wusied" out against anyone. I have an example of one thing he does, in one area of the pitch.

I'm not going to bother with this anymore as you refuse to see the small point that I raised and are determined to drive it down your route. You take every comment and find a stat to fit it to.

Fair enough.

 

I woke up too early this morning and tried to get back to sleep by looking at whoscored.com

Clasie & Schneiderlin both have an avg of 2.5 interceptions per game. Kante is this seasons best on 4.

Statistically based whoscored ratings seem to reflect common opinion. Mahrez is number one and the majority of the PFA team of the year are present. Our likely player of the season VVD is ranked as the 8th best player in the league and best overall defender.

According to the same ratings system, our second best performing player is Cedric.
Ranked 26th best overall player in the league.
Yet he can't even hold his place in the team. Is he a victim of a huge injustice or are stats not the most accurate judge of performance?

 

Stats reflect the individual...but may not reflect his performance for the team. In the case of Cedric, perhaps he is played in games where he will be most effective and not in games where he won't do so well....that could make him appear a better player. So stats are a good guideline, but aren't everything.....as I think we all know really.

 

Another point....Saints used to feature as the best (or close) in many stats charts (such as passes), but now rarely do. I suppose that reflects the loss of so many good players.

Sorry, I forgot my stance that stats charts aren't important .....unless we top them

 

Why are you focussing on "being afraid of" and "reluctant to take on"? Nobody has talked about that. Clasie will be dribbled past more than a Wanyama or Schneiderlin as in his role/style he'll be getting up in the face of the opposition quicker than either Morgan or Vic, both of whom are more interceptor/destroyer types than reader/hustler.

You keep seeming to be answering your own points rather than those being presented!

 

I'm still looking for the 'fitness' stat which is what started all this stat chat. Is Clasie unfit or does he run about more than most? Can't be doing with double pivots, I'm sure they weren't about when I was coaching!

 

Taking the fitness bit out (questionable though it is- I agree), this started with you saying the jury is out and a couple of us saying that was harsh. We think he is good and does a good job.

It's ok that you are unsure and that some of us aren't.

 

Of course, wouldn't be much of a debate otherwise. Its not like I was with Wanyama, who I thought was a complete and utter twonk! The only other time I will own up to being a 'tad' wrong was when we sold Shearer and I told the world, hard worker but no great loss, can't finish!

 

Correction - "Schneiderlin WAS better" - until he went north for the money and wasted his career .................

BTW - Loved the "Rickie Lambert - he wants to come home" chants on Sunday. I think he really appreciated it too ...........