That's a bit much, didn't intend it to be crass was thinking of it as a nice gesture. It was meant as a way of honouring their struggle and not to add it as a victory for the club, I can see why it is not right to do on reflection.
Yeah, looking at it in black and white terms you're right tobes as is carl, but looking at the disaster as a whole and taking into account the **** aimed at the club for 27 years and also taking into account the possibility of the club being punished and maybe even banned(retrospectively)if the verdicts would have fully exonerated the police and the others eventually found guilty and instead found the supporters guilty, it does kind of feel like the club won a moral victory. I know gonz would never deliberately post something "crass" on such an important issue and fair play to him by looking at it with hindsight and seeing your point of view as well as carl's.
I know mate, crass was probably too strong, as I know luv wouldn't have meant it to come across that way. Personally, I don't think the verdict was ever in doubt from day 1 of the inquest. As WE all knew the truth and this was just the formalisation of that truth being set on the record as the official cause of death. So any talk of retrospective action against LFC as an entity is moot imo. For me this was a victory for each and every one of those campaigners, and their families. A few years ago even I questioned whether their campaign had reached the point of futility. But the 2012 report provided them with the impetus to continue and the verdict this week was the validation they so richly deserved. Scousers that.......
There was only going to be one outcome and to be fair there was errors on three sides. The worst offender and who's blame is the worst is Hillsborough itself as they let far too many through the turnstiles, They did not care how many they let in as the tills were overflowing. In them days all clubs would cram as many as they could into their grounds as there was no health and safety and the terraces was not designed for safety with the handrails every few yards stopping fans from moving forward. It was an accident waiting to happen. I still put the majority of the blame on those who run the grounds turnstiles for letting far too many fans into one area for profit than ground safety....It was a sad day that changed the way clubs ran their grounds from then on....
I used to be a fire steward and unless its changed the decision to open or close turnstiles has always come from the police. It was never the clubs decision to my knowledge. Those ****s get paid a lot of money to be at matches as well as you had to have a certain amount there. May be dif nowadays where stewards have more power but back then it was the police who had authority and made the decisions.
I hate to say it but I can't see anyone going down for it. Just a feeling I have. Not sure why. The other thing I don't get is why fans are now calling for all standing terraces to come back, unless I've missed something.
There may be a few reasons. I would go for nostalgia reasons is what a lot of old feckers were used to. And secondly better atmos was probably created when it was standing. Tourists won't like the standing so hopefully might help the poor feckers who can't go at mo a better chance.
I remember being crushed at a match years ago in the old Kop and it was no joke, I made the mistake of standing in front of a barrier I was badly bruised and fainted. It's OK going for nostalgia until it happens again. I know H&S is red hot these days compared to back in 1989 but accidents still happen. Look at Alton Towers.
Of course it was an accident, a tragic accident but an accident never the less. Nobody woke up that morning and said im going to cause carnage today where fans will lose their life......There are many to blame here not just the police towards the lead up to what happened.....
I thought they had already covered this issue somewhere wishi. Ie sectioned off so only a certain amount in each section. Hopefully I'm not misleading you as its not intentional but I thought I heard that a while ago. Wasn't there plans or something somewhere of how it could work with standing areas. Something about barriers that drop as well for safety reasons.
All sports are much safer for fans today but sadly it took Hillsborough and the Bradford city fire to introduce safe seating and better stadiums and crowd control...
You will find the verdict of the inquest was that: it was NOT an accident and that it was unlawful killing. A jury of men and women listening to every detail for 2 years deliberated and came to that conclusion. And I would prefer to accept their conclusion rather than yours. BTW You don't need to wake up and say I am causing carnage today to be guilty of an unlawful killing. Serious negligence like opening the gates when such an action would have catastrophic consequences.
You could be right, Jenners, tbh I didn't look into it too much, all I remember was hearing about standing coming back and thought oh. Still I suppose horrible things can happen even in the seated areas. Something strange and silly popped into my head just then. Ejector seats for away fans when it's a team we can't stand like the Mancs and Chelsea, so when they start singing about Gerrard someone presses a button and they go wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. Cool.
Nobody said anybody woke up that morning blah blah blah, the facts of what happened have been documented and made public over the last two years, maybe you should read them. Before you repeat any of your above post consider that the man that accepted the job of match commander despite having no previous experience as such at such a big occasion was responsible for the central pens overloading prior to the gate being opened whilst the pens to the left and right of the goal were sparsely occupied. He was also responsible for telling the constables on the pitch on the day that under no circumstances were they allowed to open the fences and allow anyone onto the pitch(which they followed to the letter while people were dying in agony before their eyes, some poor souls managed to climb over the fence and escape the carnage but they were thrown back in by the police) He was also responsible for the order to open the gate to allow people that had been outside to enter the ground down the only route possible(the tunnel to the central pens)because he'd ordered the entrances to the terracing to the left and right to be kept closed. He also admitted the deaths were his responsibility and that he'd lied for 27 years. Some accident eh!
That's how I understand the issues, total gross criminal action by the police authority in charge and while the buggers have lied for decades i'm pleased that for the families involved that the truth has finally surfaced, a sad chapter indeed.
