Okay then what could the police have done to stop the crushing at the turnstyles then? Remembering what ground designs were like in those days. And can you tell me why we had the fences up in stadiums?
Read David Conn's article This was David Duckenfield's FIRST match in charge at Hillsborough , he didn't even know the layout of the ground and failed to do basic research This is on the police , no wonder they covered it all up The Liverpool fans should have just shut up and let them get away with it
Never a truer word said. You'll get lynched by the lefty liberals, but bravo for saying what we're all thinking.
You don't need to be a lefty liberal to believe the police shouldn't be allowed to commit manslaughter and cover it up. You may need to be a bit of a fascist to think they should. Or just an attention seeking contrariest might do.
Getting people to queue properly is part of normal policing. Duckenfield has admitted he did no studying for a role he'd never done before. This was despite the fact he'd known for weeks he was taking charge of the game.
Just listened to Five live 2 hour program on Hillsborough with Kelly Kate (Kenny Dalglish daughter) a very good listen. David Conn came out of it with a lot of credit for his following of the inquest. What came out of it for me, apart from the pain and suffering the families of the victims as well as the survivors have has to endure, was that as recently as our run in with South Yorkshire police with the Uddersfield handling of our away fixture 4 years ago, they hadn't changed in the 23 years since the tragedy at Hillsborough. They concocted evidence to push blame onto football fans which were totally unjustified to cover their own backs. The whole force is not fit for purpose.
John, that was West Yorkshire Police at Huddersfield. But SYP have still a lot of moving on to do too!
OK thanks, it still highlights that generally the police had, and maybe still have, this view that all football fans are hooligans.
Everyone needs to learn and move on, as your point has merit, but on balance it can also be said that, back in the day, football fans made quite an effort to live up to the label. Not all, but it doesn't take all, fans or police.
Look up Moscow stadium disaster 1982. People crushed to death leavingbthecstadium when there were only 15,000 in an 82,000 stadium.Cover ups happen under communist governments. Some ended up with light prosecutions but no mention in the media and relatives threatened if they spoke about it. A good documentary about it on TV a while ago.But of course you have to throw the word fascist in.
Yes, it does. In no other sphere are little kids, middle aged women and OAPs treated as potential hooligans and have freedom of travel and association curtailed. If certain sections of the community and religious groups were treated like that there would be uproar. Humberside compound this by being both over officious whilst at the same time showing total ineptitude.
i can't agree with that. For me, it appears to condone accrptance that all football fans deserve maltreatment for the actions of a few. It's not a matter that would be seen as acceptable in any other walk of life, or with any other crime.
Then, either I have not stated it well, or you have not read it as I intended it to be read. Perhaps I should have said 'some football fans', although I did say not all. I did not broad-brush the supporter base. I don't accept that all fans should be treated the same, if that is at all possible, but that wasn't always possible, there were active elements who used other supporters to hide behind and carry out their mischief; policing was difficult. Some police went over the top, some simply followed poor orders, some were good and many were in the supporter crowds wanting to enjoy the match-day experience. They should not be broad-brushed either. I condone nothing, from hooligan supporters or unprofessional police alike; I simply try to be fair and reasoned, as it paints a truer picture.
I think that basic premise is wrong. Family/mixed audiences/gatherings are subject to security in many instances, the security levels being according to the risk. Have you ever been to the Trooping of the Colours? Certainly a very mixed bag of humanity at that little event. Where there is known organised hooliganism there must be a counter force against it. Much of this argument is now redundant, the WYP debacle was a fairly recent exception, it was correctly fought and protested against and the matter was handled in appropriate terms of rebuke. It is about time folk washed their hands of the history and their personal grievances and moved forward, as modern day policing has other, far more threatening issues to consider, above and beyond the football hooligans that might remain.
I was being descriptive, not making a political point. I think that should have been quite obvious. To condone such state abuses is imo, fascistic, wherever it originates.
