Off Topic Political Debate

Nope.

 

I think the full force of the pros and certainly the cons in how the steel industry is probably going to go under in the UK is on show with us being part of the EU.

Now i'm not saying i'm not supporting market forces or that we should save the Steel industry but there are a lot of measures the UK cannot take that could help the steel industry in the UK become more competitive

 

Nope as in if the EU Passes a law/regulation, then we can just reject it and not implement it?

 

So how are the steel industries doing do well in other EU countries?

 

It has to be agreed in Parliament first

 

Don't know, but i've not read into it and do not know if there are any special subsidaries like the German national bank. I would hazard a guess at cheaper labour and maybe investment into more efficient ways in producing the steel and/or ease of resources. I know why Chinese steel companies haven't been closing down or the US. The argument is though that we can't do things to improve our steel industry because of certain EU regulations.

 

The directives have to be agreed but will eventually be passed. Regulations are directly applied and we don't have a choice so you are only partially correct and even then we eventually have to apply it

 

That Javid chap that's making a mess of it all also voted against increasing tariffs on cheap Chinese steel, thus helping UK steel sink even faster.

It's nothing to do with the EU

 

He probably did in a vote a while back. But if we wanted to get it changed now, we would need to go through the EU, wait 1 year whilst everyone gets around a table and votes and probably be outvoted if it wasn't to the benefit of other nations (or at least we've have to offer something) rather than just depending on ourselves.

We could all blame Javid and the tories for not helping in this current moment of crisis instead now they can blame the EU and we will have another 10 years of the tories.

 

And how will leaving the EU help in any way? Since the Tories are the ones that chose not to impose higher tariffs on foreign Steel imports?

 

Like lots of other laws made in international agreements/committees that we are part of. It's no different.

Why should we have an unelected monarch as a Head of State that our government has to answer to? Why is she better than the EU? (she's German too...)

 

How many laws/regulations/directives has our current monarch made? Now do the same with the EU. Who really listens to the queen except for old middle aged women and grannies.

Yes there are lots of international agreements that we CHOOSE to be a part of. Not something that is potentially dictated to us by some unknown un-elected group who have their own agendas and want to make the EU a single state (conspiracy theory will say ruled by the banks). If the volatility in our economy (again this is all ifs) then i am happy to sacrifice that to allow us to make our own decisions. Short term hurt for long term gain.

 

It will help if the Tories or any other party want to actually change the UK for the better.

 

So because the Tories made a mistake that has damaged the UK economy, we should pull out of the EU which will also damage the UK economy just in case the Tories want to change the UK law to rectify their mistake? (which they won't in the Talbot case).

Makes perfect sense...

Selfish people voting on a matter than will affect future generations waaaaay more than them, because an organisation we're part of occasionally puts through laws agreed by all member states that don't affect us in a negative way.

 

Firstly, it's conjecture that the UK economy will be damaged by pulling out of the EU, not a fact.

Second, if the Tories wanted to correct their mistake (we say mistake as i don't believe anyone has predicted chinese steel dumping, the tariff vote was taken in 2014 and u.s. raised the chinese steel tariff in 2015), they wouldn't be able to if they wanted to which is the whole premise of pulling out of the EU.

Thirdly, how is that being selfish, if anything i think it's a better decision long term, to not be part of the EU, not be part of TTIP which i think is going to be a terrible thing at a cost of being in an economy which is supposedly going to get worse according to your opinion?

We've seen how the EU treats some of its members and its all about money. Greece who to be fair didn't help themselves by overborrowing are not still saddled with debt which EU has not sorted out and surprise surprise all state assets are being systematically stripped by the EU. I think the EU is far more dangerous than you think and the fact that people are arguing that we are intertwined that its even becoming hard to leave the EU before we are even fully integrated into the EU (i.e. Euro, Schengen)

 

Ok, you say its a conjecture that we'll be worse off if we leave, how do you know we'll be better off long term?

The chinese steel issue has been going on for a while, there was a EU movement against it, yet the Tories led a group of EU countries refusing to raise tariffs

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...blocking-eu-attempts-regulate-chinese-dumping

I'm not a fan of TTIP but as a collective the EU has more bargaining power than the UK on their own, and if we want to trade with the US after Brexit why would they give us a better deal than they would if we were part of the EU?

The EU has good bits and bad bits, like anything, but we could be part of the decision making rather than sitting on the side.

 

I don't know if we will be better off economically wise in or out (i'm assuming you meant that rather than better off long term as that is subjective as to what is better) because no one can tell the future. Maybe there will be investor confidence lost when we leave or maybe corporations won't want to have the HQ in London. On the flipside we won't need to keep bailing out the Greeks or pay obscene amounts of money to Turkey to take back illegal immigrants.

What i don't want is for the EU to be able to implement policies that are not in the interests of Britain. I don't want UK to turn into America where the corporations and lobbyists control the power (is happening to the UK but there will be no turning back when there are more mindless sheep and media to control)

Okay, Britain has refused to raise tariffs but do you believe that they are still blocking this. As for them being "Main" ringleaders, do you believe that if Britain votes yes, the other countries who are voting no will suddenly flip to Yes and tariffs get raised?

And how much decision making have we been a part of so far? You may argue if we get our act together but i think the EU is controlled by the corporations and that is where i don't think we will have any influence. The fact that the agreement allows corporations to sue governments should there by any national policies that affect profit sounds like a legal nightmare to me. Admittedly i haven't look into this too much to find out the ins and outs but that certainly raises red flags. We can still agree trade deals with US (we're trading with them right now aren't we) and it would be easy for us to make amendments to our trade deals whereas as part of the EU everyone has to agree.

 

I think if we stay on we have to address head on the remit of the EU as it has got silly with some of its ideas no doubt.....

 

Can we stick to facts here. Britain is not bailing out Greece, this is being done only by the Eurozone. Similarly, because Britain is not in Schengen, it is not paying Turkey either.