Off Topic Political Debate

If you look back most of the MP's charged with fiddling expenses were from the Labour benches, fact.

 

I can see we are playing party politics AGAIN ..yawn
How about this list from wiki:

• Ben Chapman announced on 21 May 2009 that he would stand down at the next election, while maintaining that he had done nothing wrong; he said he would resign because the story in the Telegraph had been hurtful to his family, friends and local party members. He was the first Labour MP who announced he would stand down.[115]
• David Chaytor announced that he would not stand for re-election,[116] and was also barred from standing for Labour at the next general election.[117] Charged with three alleged offences under section 17 of the Theft Act 1968 ("false accounting"),[118][119] on 3 December 2010 he pleaded guilty to claiming rent for a house he in fact owned, using a fake tenancy agreement with his daughter. He was sentenced on 7 January 2011 to an 18-month jail sentence.[120] His sentence may have been more lenient than the maximum seven years because of his guilty plea.[121]
• Harry Cohen announced he would not stand for re-election. He said the strain caused by the criticism over his expenses, and the formal investigation into his claims, were the main factors behind his departure.[122] He was subsequently barred from receiving his MP's resettlement grant, after being censured for his claims on a second home.[123]
• Jim Devine was deselected on 16 June following a disciplinary hearing by the Labour party "star chamber".[117][124] He has been charged with two alleged offences under section 17 of the Theft Act 1968 ("false accounting").[118][119] He was duly convicted of two charges of false accounting and on 31 March 2011 was sentenced to 16 months imprisonment[125][126]
• Ian Gibson was also barred from representing Labour at the next general election and de-selected. He was said to be "deeply disappointed".[117] On 5 June, Gibson announced his resignation as an MP, forcing a by-election to be held in his Norwich North constituency on 23 July 2009, which Labour went on to lose to the Conservatives.[127]
• Eric Illsley on 8 February 2011, announced his resignation as an MP, forcing a by-election to be held in his Barnsley Central constituency, after pleading guilty to charges of false accounting.[128]
• Denis MacShane on 5 November 2012, announced his resignation as an MP, forcing a by-election to be held in his Rotherham constituency, following a recommendation from the Standards and Privileges Committee that he be suspended for 12 months for submitting false expenses invoices.[129]
• Anne Moffat on 22 January 2010, Moffat was deselected by her East Lothian constituency party, over her travel expenses.[130]
• Margaret Moran decided not to contest the next election,[131] and was also barred from standing for Labour.[117] On 13 October 2010, the Telegraph reported that Moran would be prosecuted over her expenses.[132] In 2012, Moran was declared unfit to stand trial due her mental health, which was profoundly affected by the scandal.
• Elliot Morley announced on 29 May that he would not stand for re-election,[133] and was also barred from standing for Labour at the next general election by the NEC's "star chamber".[117] He has been charged with two alleged offences under section 17 of the Theft Act 1968 ("false accounting").[118][119]

Conservatives[edit]

• On 14 May, Andrew MacKay, the Conservative MP for Bracknell, resigned as parliamentary aide to David Cameron over what he described as "unacceptable" expenses claims made by him. Subsequently he decided to stand down at the next Bracknell parliamentary election.[134] His wife, Julie Kirkbride who represents Bromsgrove, decided on 28 May 2009 that she too would not stand at the next general election.[135]
• Douglas Hogg announced on 19 May that he would retire from Parliament at the next general election.[136]
• Anthony Steen announced on 20 May that he would retire from Parliament at the next general election.[137]
• Sir Peter Viggers announced on 20 May that he would retire from Parliament at the next general election.[138]
• Husband and wife Conservative backbenchers Sir Nicholas and Lady Ann Winterton announced their intention to stand down at the next election.[139]
• Christopher Fraser stated he would stand down to "care for his ill wife".[140]
• Ian Taylor announced he would retire at the next general election although not because of the expenses issue (see link below). He had been claiming and had openly declared the maximum allowed for a second home allowance for a London home for four years between 2003 and 2008. His main residence was nearGuildford in West Horsley.[141]

Peers[edit]

• Amir Bhatia, Baron Bhatia has been suspended from the House of Lords for eight months and told to repay £27,446
• Anthony Clarke, Baron Clarke of Hampstead admitted that he “fiddled” his expenses to make up for not being paid a salary.[142]
• Lord Hanningfield was charged with two alleged offences under section 17 of the Theft Act 1968 ("false accounting").[118][119] He stepped down from hisfrontbench role on learning of the charges on 5 February 2010.[143] On 26 May 2011, Lord Hanningfield was found guilty on six counts.
• Swraj Paul, Baron Paul has been suspended from the House of Lords for four months and ordered to pay back £41,982
• John Taylor, Baron Taylor of Warwick pleaded not guilty to six charges of false accounting, but was convicted at Southwark Crown Court on 25 January 2011.
• Baroness Uddin faces a police investigation for alleged fraud for claiming at least £180,000 in expenses by designating an empty flat, and previously an allegedly non existent property as her main residence. She was suspended from the House of Lords until the end of 2012 and told to repay £125,349[144][145]

They were all at it from all parties......

 

As previously mentioned most from Labour.

 

Britain in the 21st century...

The wealthiest 20% of Britain’s earners will receive almost as much support from the state through the “shadow welfare” of generous tax-breaks by 2020, as the poorest fifth take home in benefits, according to a new analysis by the Fabian Society.

Iain Duncan Smith used his resignation letter from the cabinet to criticise the March budget as “unfair,” for juxtaposing reductions in benefits for the disabled with tax cuts for some of the wealthiest in society.

But Andrew Harrop, the Fabians’ general secretary, said his research shows the budget was just the latest step in a radical reshaping of the welfare state, which has shifted resources from the poorest in society to the better-off.

“By the end of the decade, if the Conservatives deliver on their manifesto promises, households in the top fifth of the income distribution will be receiving an average of £9,400 a year in tax allowances and welfare payments; while the poorest fifth of households, for whom benefits may be their only source of income, receive an average of £10,200,” he said.

Duncan Smith resigned over unfair choices between tax cuts for the rich and benefit cuts for the poor. But he spent six years in cabinet supporting welfare cuts and tax allowance rises which have together led us to the position where the basic financial help for a two-earner couple is higher than for an unemployed couple,” Harrop said.

Increases to the tax-free personal allowance – a Liberal Democrat policy taken up by the coalition government from 2010 – have been the cornerstone of the Treasury’s approach to supporting lower-paid workers. In last year’s general election manifesto, the Conservatives promised to lift it to £12,000 by the end of this parliament, and Osborne took another step towards that goal in the budget.

But as the allowance has risen, taking more of the lowest-paid out of income tax, the benefits of further steps have gone increasingly to workers in the middle of the income distribution, with the poorest – and the unemployed – missing out altogether.

The Institute for Fiscal Studies thinktank pointed out in the run-up to the election that 43% of adults already earned too little to pay income tax, so would not benefit from further increases in the personal allowance.

During a period when many key benefits have been frozen, Harrop says the scale of tax reliefs now effectively amounts to a system of “shadow welfare”.

The cash value of the basic personal tax allowances will have increased by 80% in the decade to 2020; while out-of-work benefits have increased by just 12%. That means the average two-earner couple will be receiving more in basic tax allowances by 2020 than an unemployed couple would be given in benefits. Taxreliefs are rarely considered as equivalent to cash benefit payments; but Harrop argues that the revenue foregone by the Treasury still amounts to financial support, and politicians should ask themselves whether this represents the best use of taxpayers’ resources.”

From the perspective of disposable income it makes no difference whether the government gives you a tax allowance or a cash payment,” he said. “The government must explain how it can justify giving more money to working couples through the ‘shadow welfare’ of tax reliefs than to the unemployed through benefits.”

The row about Osborne’s tax and spending priorities was reignited by the budget, with critics questioning whether cutting corporation tax, which is already at the lowest rate in the G20, and reducing capital gains tax (CGT), would really boost entrepreneurialism, as he claimed. Labour’s calculations suggested that the CGT cuts were worth an average £3,000 to the richest 0.3% of the population.

The shadow chief secretary to the treasury, Seema Malhotra, recently announced a review of the different tax reliefs offered to businesses, arguing that the government has failed to test their effectiveness, and could be wasting billions of pounds on incentives that fail to achieve their stated objectives.

 

Seems perfectly fair to me.

 

and what is so sad is that many of those people at the upper end who benefit will have zero understanding or care for those in real need. They will even think it is somehow just....

 

Jonathan Aitken, Chief Secretary to the Treasury - Tory; jailed.
Jeffrey Archer, Deputy Chairman of the Conservative Party - Tory; jailed.
Keith Best, Parliamentary Private Secretary to the Secretary of State for Wales - Tory; jailed.
Ian Horobin, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Power - Tory; jailed.
Chris Huhne, Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change - Liberal; jailed.
Denis MacShane*, Minister of State for Europe - Labour; jailed.
Eliot Morley, Minister of State for the Environment and Agri-Environment - Labour; jailed.
John Stonehouse, Minister of State for Technology - Labour; jailed.
Mike Watson, Minister for Tourism, Culture and Sport- Labour; jailed.

It seems that as you move through the alphabet, the ministers in trouble become progressively more left-wing.

I think the cases of Aitken, Archer, Huhne, MacShane (a Tory if ever there was one) and Stonehouse are the highest profile ones.

There are others that are not cabinet-related or too early for us to bother about (Whigs et al) and I've removed the Northern Irish politicians.

*A sh1th3ad of the first order.

 

What is really sad those people at the bottom drawing benefits whilst watching soaps on their 60 inch tvs have zero understanding of what efforts and sacrifices others have to endue to pay those benefits. They think their benefits are fully justified.

 

http://www.capitalandconflict.com/make-or-break-time-for-britain

Interesting take on Brexit. I'm only through point 1 at the moment.

Watched this video though and whilst some of it is a bit over the top (star wars scene), i think i'm in agreement with it.

nicked both from the swansea board

 

Peter Skinner - Labour MEP fiddled nearly £500k in expenses. Quite surprised he got caught as the EU cannot get its own books through an audit.

 

That doesn't happen.

Keep on believing the lies fed to you by the Daily Fail

 

*Ex-MEP

Also,...

George Osborne likes to say "we're all in this together." But last week, Channel 4 revealed that he's avoiding paying tax. He pays accountants to help him find loopholes which Channel 4 reckon will help him dodge £1.6million. These kind of "legal tax dodges" cost the rest of us billions

 

Isn't the tax dodging something like fifteen times greater than benefit fraud? Where are all the Channel 5 documentaries on that? 'Tax Dodgers Street' anyone? Who owns Channel 5? Aah, I see.

 

This is absolutely agreed and evidenced.... so why some people bang on about the few people who cheat the benefits system... and I in NO way condone it... but there is much more fraud and unpaid taxes etc at the top end.

You would expect the Govt which prides itself on sound bookkeeping to go after them wouldn't you.... and of course those who ascribe to the ideology of the Govt.

It should be dealt with wherever it happens... and to continually bang on about people on benefits is venomous IMO.

If someone owed my £5 and someone else owed my £500 I myself would be much more interested in the £500.

 

Of course most of the media is owned by Tory party supporters, so objectivity is a mite difficult.

 

Have you noticed a lack of complaining about the fiddling fat cat eurocrats? Their cheating has been going on over 20 years.

 

Do I take it that Farage doesn't take his salary from the EU. To complain about everything that they do, then take £100,000 pa from them seems hypocritical to say the least.

 

Insignificant compared to the hundreds of millions that go missing due to actual fraud at the top.

 

Also it seems that UKIP could disband after the vote.

Some of Mr Farage's colleagues suspect he could use voter data collected by the Leave.EU referendum campaign and funds from its backer Arron Banks to embark on a fresh political project.
Arron Banks is a walking contradiction. The insurance tycoon is one of Ukip’s biggest donors but on the day we meet offers reasons for disbanding the party. He is a close ally of Nigel Farage but says the Ukip leader would make an appalling MP.