Off Topic Political Debate

What Angela Merkel decided to do was an emergency decision to alleviate a problem which had built up in Hungary - a humanitarian decision which was not meant to be the beginning of an open door policy. Things were getting very ugly there and she reacted from the heart and not with long term considerations, I respect her for that even though the consequences have proved difficult. With reference to refugee camps in Jordan, Lebanon and Turkey - what futures can they have there, can they spend the rest of their lives there ? Realistically very few will ever see Syria again (how many refugees from Nazi Germany ever went back there ?), so, one day, they will become workers and citizens somewhere, and their children will become naturalized somewhere else....and that is the big challenge. How would history have judged countries which refused to take refugees from World War 2 ? With respect to economic migrants - how many million Britons have left to seek a better life somewhere else ? Soon we will be faced with the problem of environmental refugees as well, a number which could be greater than anything previously seen. These people are fleeing from bombs made in the west, from poverty caused by a World economic system which we profit from, and from the environmental consequences of our emissions - will you shrug your shoulders, look at your pocket, and say 'nothing to do with us' ?

 

Britain's who leave for a better life outside of the EU have to apply for visa's and it takes a hell of a lot to get into countries like Australia, Canada & the US - hardly the same description. Why would not the people of Syria not return? it's their country to rebuild.
What mad Merkel did was reckless and she will be judged accordingly.

 

You obviously have never been to Turkey...tourist shops in Turkey want to be paid in Euro's, even hotel bars charge in Euro's

 

Because history has taught us that refugees seldom return to the scene of nightmares, and because Syria is no longer their country, do you expect them to return to live next to people who killed their relatives, because that is the nature of civil war. I was talking here more about history than the present W_Y, the millions of Britons did not always need visas before emigrating and there are around 2 million of them now in other EU. countries not needing visas. What was Merkel to do ? There were thousands of refugees in Budapest, all wanting to get to Germany or Austria, the police there could not cope with the situation as it was and it was only a matter of time before it got very ugly - there was no way that these people could go back along their original route and so an emergency solution had to be found. It would be better if, instead of criticizing someone for a humanitarian gesture, you offered some other solution.

 

Spot on. Our expats applying to live in the above countries have to prove they are financially sound and often have to contribute upfront so they are not a drain on the country's resources.

Merkel's welcome to all was reckless, selfish and had no regard for other nations. Although the germans dominate Europe she went far too far.

 

She had no need to endanger those who were contemplating taking up the people trafficker's offer a dangerous boat trip. People drowned because of her.

 

For a start, she could have told Turkey to sort the problem out immediately or face the consequences, instead the EU has tried to bribe them and failed. I suspect she is more worried about the Turkish vote back home...
Then she could have funded properly run camps in Greece and Hungary and the Balkan countries and got these people registered and documented and then start to move them into Germany & Austria who where telling them they were welcome. How much has Germany given to (back) Greece to help?
I hear that Austria is now proposing to send "the military" to the Greek borders to help them control them...I can just imagine how much German speaking soldiers will be welcome in Greece, so no doubt it will be Britain asked to take the lead.
Anyway, we can also look forward to Bosnia joining the EU. This is the country with a 45% muslim population that has been home to jihadi training camps run by Chechens - who after the events of the 1990's are not exactly in love with the EU, especially the Dutch - what could go wrong!....another looming disaster to be laid at the door of meddling politicians.

 

You are taking a great deal upon yourself by pointing a finger and saying 'people died because of you`. She did what she had to do and helped. If others (in Syria or elsewhere) were saying that Germany and Austria had a permanently open door, with jobs, money, and everything else then Merkel could have had no control over this. If I save someones life and then that person goes on to kill others - am I responsible ? I judge people by their motives not by results.

 

She did not have to send a signal to those already still in Syria, Iraq etc that Germany had an open door. Some of her colleagues were horrified by her statement. By her actions she has given the far right in most european countries a massive boost.

 

The natives are not happy with Corbyn's performance this week. Labour MP John Woodcock commented 'F****** disaster, Worse week for Cameron since he came in and that stupid f****** list makes us into a laughing stock'

Also ' Jeremy Corbyn's latest outing at Prime Minister's Questions was a f****** disaster'

If Labour cannot take advantage of the government's worse week in years when can they shine.

 

They don't need to try, this government is doing all the work themselves to prove they're vile.

BoJo made a fool of himself with his balloons/teabags/etc claims, are you maybe related to him superhorns?

Corbyn will be our PM in 2020, and the people of this country need it.

 

Boris Johnson is well off, intelligent, well liked, and influential, he may well be related to me.

There is no way Corbyn will be able to convince the public beyond the spotty faced activists. He will be regarded in history similar to the other windbag Michael Foot who equally damaged the Labour Party.

 

By the time they expel all of the Trots, SWP's and Anti-Semites from New New Labour, there will be little left of the "new wing" and Corbyn will get the heave ho...

 

We have no jurisdiction over Turkey, Greece or Hungary and have no right to tell them what they should be doing - how can you tell a country to take over 2 million refugees who do not want to be there ? Nobody is asking the British to intervene with soldiers anywhere -

Where is your evidence for this assumption ? Or are you just echoing the media. Can you name for me some of these Trotskyists, SWP members etc. are you also presuming that all people who criticize the Israeli government are anti semites ? There has been no leader of the Labour party over the last 30 years who has had the extent of grass roots support that Corbyn does. Even amongst those Labour members who had been members at the time of Gordon Brown, Corbyn had the majority in favour of him. His brand of grass roots democracy may ruffle the feathers of some at the upper end of the party - but that is their problem. The majority of party members agree with him on Trident and on a whole range of other topics - if some in the Parliamentary party go against the grass roots then it is they who will disappear not Corbyn.

 

It sounds as if the few remaining moderate souls who could have galvanised an opposition to the Tories at the next election will be hounded out, especially due to the boundary changes. I can see a defeat larger than Michael Foot's lowest share of the vote since 1918.

Will Toby blame the media, weather or the stars in the wrong place?

 

Fortunately your 'insight' is completely worthless

 

The Leave campaign has received a major boost with 250 business leaders urging the UK to leave the EU. Recent polls now have the two campaigns level, all to play for.

The remain camp cannot afford any more bad news coming out of Europe.

 

I agree that this referendum may be very close which is worrying in as much as well over 40% of the country will be left with a result which they didn't vote for - and that in something which is irreversable. I believe that Labour voters (particularly those on the left) hold the key here - will they be motivated enough to vote to remain in an organisation which is now seen as anti socialist, particularly after having seen how Greece was treated (enforced privatizations etc.). A future Labour programme involving renationalization of railways, power etc. could be difficult within the EU. On the other hand many laws protecting workers rights and the environment have also come from the EU. so will the left be motivated enough for this ? My guess is that Corbyn will take up more initiative on this closer to the event. The other unknown factor is whether all ex pats will vote (they appear on no opinion polls and there are about 6 million of them out there with British passports) - mostly they would come within the 15 year threshhold. People are living with an illusion if they think that Britain's high rate of immigration will be changed by Brexit - firstly because Britain can turn away all undesirables as it is because they are not in Schengen and control/scan all passports anyway. Also the number of European migrants in Britain would not go down with Brexit, because any moves against them would be reciprocated in Europe against British citizens. You may like to note that Switzerland is not in the EU. but has the highest immigration in Europe.

 

On another note:

Our thoughts and prayers are with the 40+ youth who died yesterday in Iraq after a terrorist attack at a local youth sports field during a tournament.

They had their last match.

Terrorism has no religion.

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Cologne, you must have been out of the UK at least 50 years. The UK is no longer attracted to nationalisation, more state or any left wing initiative that Corbyn may come up with, he is a non player in British politics. The politics of the UK has moved firmly to the centre right ground.

I've not heard anyone supporting Brexit advocating sending europeans back to their own countries, however I would like to see a proper purge on illegal immigrants. Controlled immigration is fine as long as the UK, as a nation state, has that control.