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The Betfred Cheltenham Gold Cup Chase - Friday March 18 2016

Discussion in 'Horse Racing' started by beeforsalmon, Oct 28, 2015.

  1. DreverSpur

    DreverSpur Well-Known Member

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    I'm also sure that if his breathing had been sorted out earlier in his career he would have won more stayers races.

    10 year old stat is fair enough but look at the improvement we have seen this season thanks to the breathing op.
     
    #201
  2. OddDog

    OddDog Mild mannered janitor
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    Looks like Many Clouds is going to Kelso on Sunday so we won't be seeing him in the Gold Cup.
     
    #202
  3. Sir Barney Chuckles

    Sir Barney Chuckles Who Dares Wins

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    Looks like Mr Hemmings has intervened again and once more told old boy Sherwood what to do! That's the way though to treat a trainer.
     
    #203
  4. OddDog

    OddDog Mild mannered janitor
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    Straight bat with plenty of blood and thunder is good old Mr Hemmings <ok>
     
    #204
  5. Sir Barney Chuckles

    Sir Barney Chuckles Who Dares Wins

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    It looks like Mr Hemmings has worked out how to get the best out of old boy Sherwood. Just do the total opposite to what he says:

    OS: Many Clouds won't run in the 2015 GN
    TH: Many Clouds runs in the 2015 GN

    OS: Many Clouds runs in the 2016 CGC
    TH: Many Clouds won't run in the 2016 CGC

    In saying that though bit of money for the horse for the CGC this morn. 'Blue' with Betbright right now.
     
    #205
  6. King Shergar

    King Shergar Well-Known Member

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    Nearly got the first 3 spot on back in October.

    An easy victory for Don Cossack in the end though, just as I predicted it would be.

    He beat Djakadam a lot easier than Coneygree did too, so you have to say the form this year is a lot stronger than last years.
     
    #206
  7. Bostonbob

    Bostonbob Well-Known Member

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    It was completely different ground. The only two horses that would appreciate that ground were Don Cossack and Cue Card. One of them fell when looking a huge challenger. Djakadam ran a mighty race to finish second on a surface he doesn't really act on. I'd say it would have been a different result had it been soft but we'll never know. Certainly couldn't say this years race was stronger based on yesterday.
     
    #207
  8. Bostonbob

    Bostonbob Well-Known Member

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    The best thing about yesterday's race for me is the Don Poli bubble was well and truly burst. There's something about the fan club he built up for no reason that I can't abide.
     
    #208
  9. King Shergar

    King Shergar Well-Known Member

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    Don Cossack is effective on all going. In the last 2 seasons he's raced on soft or heavy ground 4 times and won each time very easily. His only 2 defeats in the last 2 years came in last years Ryanair on good ground where he got badly hampered, and in the KG on good to soft where he fell when making his effort.

    So there isn't really anything in his form to suggest he's better on good ground than soft, if anything it says the opposite.

    Everyone keeps doubting him, yet he keeps on winning. They said he didn't like Cheltenham, they said he wouldn't stay. And now that he's proved those doubts wrong, he apparently got lucky with the ground.

    It was a much stronger race than last year too, Djakadam was only a 6 year, whilst Road to Riches was within 3 lentghs, and that handicapper Holywell got within 9 lentghs.

    Holywell wouldnt get anywhere near Don Cossack, whilst Road To Riches has already been thrashed by Don Cossack before 14 lentghs. So all the form points to this years race being a lot stronger than last years.
     
    #209
  10. Ron

    Ron Well-Known Member
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    Pretty poor if you ask me Shergs. <laugh>
     
    #210

  11. King Shergar

    King Shergar Well-Known Member

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    Will need to try harder for next year
     
    #211
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  12. ChelseaCOE2012

    ChelseaCOE2012 Well-Known Member

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    Still think Cue Card would of won personally, shame there's no real chance again as he'll be 11 next year, still think Cossack's pretty crap, hasn't really beaten anything and the fact Cue Card would of won the gold cup is worrying who's a good horse but wouldn't have even got near the likes of Kauto/Denman. It's weak division atm but i'm sure it'll come back to life in a couple years
     
    #212
  13. King Shergar

    King Shergar Well-Known Member

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    Need I remind you that the only time Cue Card ever beat Don Cossack was when he fell in the KG. The other 3 times DC has thrashed him. At Aintree, Punchestown and now Cheltenham festivals Don Cossack holds victorys over Cue Card. So had Cue Card stood up all known form suggests Don Cossack would have beaten him again comfortably.

    As far as calling him pretty crap? You clearly don't understand racing if you think that. Probably just sour grapes because you didn't back him.
     
    #213
  14. hammersmith junior

    hammersmith junior Well-Known Member

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    What a complete Herbert !
     
    #214
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  15. ChelseaCOE2012

    ChelseaCOE2012 Well-Known Member

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    Cossack actually won me £1,031.25 so no pocket talk, I just think he's over rated, has pretty poor opposition
     
    #215
  16. Bostonbob

    Bostonbob Well-Known Member

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    You can make that argument but it isn't backed up by anything the connections say. Running on soft in Ireland is unavoidable. He's a good ground horse and that was proven yesterday.

    However, even if you think he acts equally on all surfaces, which I think is a fair point, it doesn't detract from the fact his opposition are not best faced on good. Djakadam and Don Poli both cry out for soft. Basically, it doesn't matter how you argue it. Don Cossack had the advantage of favourable conditions yesterday. I wanted Cue Card or Djakadam to win but flagged up pre race the conditions made DC a cert so I don't think it is a case of people not giving him his dues. It's just more a case of one very good horse having favourable conditions and using that advantage to the fullest. Much like you'd back previous Festival winners at future meetings because they tend to thrive on those specific race conditions - pace, ground and volume of runners.
     
    #216
  17. King Shergar

    King Shergar Well-Known Member

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    If I listened to what connections said then I wouldn't make as much money out of horse racing as I do. Trainers, Jockeys and owners are the worst judges in the world. I take no notice of them and its always served me well.

    All I care about is the actual form book, and there is nothing whatsoever in Don Cossacks form to suggest he is inconvenienced by heavy ground. He's a versatile horse, he'd beat any of them on any ground, and that's why he's the best horse in training by quite some way!

    Regardless of wether Djackadam is a mud lark or not, anyone with half a brain can see that Don Cossack is a miles superior horse to him. Look at the races both horses have won?

    Even in this years GC, Don Cossack was travelling 3 wide round the turns for long stages of the race, where as Djackadam had the best route on the inside. But when push came to shove, the Don had way more in the tank. The difference between those 2 horses in terms of ability is astronomical, and that's why Djakadam has never beaten him.

    You say Don Cossack wouldn't have won on soft ground, yet why does he win impressively on soft ground every time he encounters it?

    I'm fed up of people not giving this horse the credit he duly deserves. His only 2 defeats in the last 2 years have been from a bad hampering and a fall. When he isnt interfered with and he doesn't fall, nothing has got near him for 2 full seasons.
     
    #217
  18. smokethedeadbadger

    smokethedeadbadger Well-Known Member

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    It's impossible to say one way or the other if Cue Card would have won had he stayed on his feet. I'm a massive Cue Card fan and has him well backed but it was still a hell of a long way out to say he would have won it for definite. I was on Cue Card in the King George and whilst watching that with my wife I remember saying 'oh for **** same Don Cossack has got us here' then that horse fell so won could argue that would have won the King George had he stayed on his feet.

    It may not have been the best of the best in the race and some would argue (not me) that the quality had diminished somewhat with Vautour going elsewhere and Coneygree missing but it was still a competitive race that Don Cossack won well. As gutted as I was with Cue Card the fact of the matter is, if you want to win races you have to jump the fences, he didn't, he lost.
     
    #218
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  19. Archers Road

    Archers Road Urban Spaceman

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    Same thing happens almost every year; no sooner have they weighed in than people start crabbing the form and talking about substandard renewals. Fact is, the best horse won, a shade cosily in the end. DC smashed them all up and it's pointless speculating about who failed to complete and who failed to show up. Having backed Cue Card without much conviction, I find it inpossible to argue that he might have won that race - because he didn't win it. (Though I'm still haunted by memories of Silviniaco Conti cantering all over them before disappearing out of my telly. But that's another story.)
     
    #219
  20. OddDog

    OddDog Mild mannered janitor
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    I'm just surprised no one has mentioned Arkle yet <whistle>
     
    #220

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