My god reading back through this Cini and Arsenal87 are acting like a right pair of bitches aren't they?
For simply pointing out that PISKIE made the same sorts of comments as A87 that he himself castigated 10 days earlier?
Please don't take this as a personal attack but I think you have simply been spoilt rotten over the past 20 years. Only Man Utd, Chelsea, City and possibly Liverpool (as they have the CL win in Istanbul ) would not swap places with Arsenal since 1996. You have had 2 fa cups wins in the last 3 seasons (inc this one) but this season you lot are whining cos you aint going to win the league. You have won 3 league titles (and been runners up 3 or 4 times), you've been to a CL final, a uefa cup final, 7 or 8 fa cup finals (winning 6) 2 league cup finals and have played in the CL every year. There are a lot of supporters of Liverpool, United, Arsenal and Chelsea who have no sense of proportion (city are different cos they remember life in league 1) because they expect to keep having success simply cos they are part of the big 5 club. If you don't care what happens with arsenal results then tbh you can't really say you are an arsenal fan any more. You may avoid matches to avoid disappointment but that's a different thing to not caring whether you win or lose. Some of my favourite games of the past 10 years have been... Spurs 4 villa 4 2007 (we were 4-1 down with 20 mins to go) Spurs 4 chelsea 4 2008 (we were 3-1 down and 4-3 down) Spurs 3 Arsenal 3 2012 (we were 3 -1 down) Arsenal 4 Spurs 4 2008 (we were 4-2 down on 88 mins) Nothing was at stake in these games and we defended abysmally but the excitement of the occasion made for great memories. I remember watching the 4 all with arsenal with my then 10 yr old daughter with both of us going mental as we equalised. I remember listening to updates on a radio as we beat Reading 6-4 with my then 10 yr old and 5 yr old in a car park outside a cinema waiting to go and see Alvin and the Chipmonks and none of us wanted to leave until the final whistle. I went to our last home EL game with my 13 yr old girl...our biggest memory is the 10 minute chant between shelf side and park lane fans. football is about memories of the occasion, who you were with and of the trophies and good matches...its sad to that some fans miss this point.
This post will no doubt be received positively amongst the older generation of fans, but the accusation of Arsenal fans being 'spoiled' is one that I don't accept. No-one is expecting trebles or winning the league/CL every year without losing or conceding a single game - this is a strawman constantly levelled at Arsenal fans and it doesn't hold up to scrutiny. Yes, if you look at it in absolute terms, I am fortunate to be supporting a club that regularly competes (debatable if 'competes' is the right word) at the top end of the league and regularly partakes in the Champions League. But the reality is that the expectations and the landscape of football have changed significantly and we are in a position where we are expected to be challenging for major honours on a consistent basis, amongst the best teams in the world. We're the 8th richest club in the world, we have one of the largest revenues and ticket prices in the world for a sporting club, we have one of the richest men in the world on our board, we have more money now than we've ever had in our entire history and a new 60,000+ seater stadium. So as you can see Arsenal are in such a healthy position, both in terms of their financial position and personnel, yet we are continuously seeing the same mistakes being made with no attempt of them being rectified. When your owner refuses to be held accountable for what he does when he takes money out of the club and refuses to clarify on why he doesn't care about trophies, when you have a manager who is arrogant enough to believe he is infallible and no-one can question his jurisdiction, when you have a board who give the manager no pressure to deliver and you see the same limp, insipid and dour performances from the team season-in, season-out with no major progressions, whilst there is a hike in ticket prices and executive salaries, you can't expect Arsenal fans to feel satisfied and settle for mediocrity. We're honestly not asking for much. It's not unreasonable for Arsenal fans to expect an increase in competitiveness at the highest level after being told for a decade that we were going to need to tighten our belts. We've been patient enough with the manager and his players, yet we're not moving forward. If he's going to hinder the progression of the team by standing still, then I'd rather have a manager who will make the effort to reform the side and develop a stronger mentality within the camp. If Leicester or Spurs, who have far less clout than us, can stake a claim for the title, then why aren't we? What reasons are there other than incompetence and mismanagement for why we're not at the top of the league but a side who were almost relegated last season are? As it is, we're seeing the same fundamental flaws every week and nothing is being done. So it's a cycle of monotonous predictability and it gets tiresome.
Alternatively - only one team can win the title, the FA Cup, the League Cup and the Champions League each season ... why should it be Arsenal? ... ,... being in with a chance of doing so, however slim, is still footballing heaven compared to what the majority of EPL clubs can realistically aspire to ... not to mention clubs with wonderful histories that are now not even in the EPL ... ... I really don't get the whingers ...
It tells you everything about them that they are revelling in it, when the team are at their lowest ebb. With 'fans' like that who needs enemies ?
Sadly, AFC87 & Cini can't (or choose not to in order to continue their petulance) differentiate between probable and possible. Will Arsenal get past Barca? Probably not, but it is still possible, however improbable. What makes it worse for me is they both clearly delight in our club's misfortune. AFC87 gets too much enjoyment from starting fights with fellow Arsenal fans. His relentless baiting after every defeat is beyond childish although I also appreciate it stems from his immense frustration. It's a pity because AFC87 is very knowledgeable and I enjoy his posts during his brief spells of sanity (or when his account sharer logs on). Cini is just a troll of the purist kind and has probably (there's that word again) never even been to see Arsenal play. He only ever comes on here to stir it up and slag off the club whenever we lose. I don't recall him ever making a positive post, but could be wrong. I would lay big money that if he is a member of other fora covering non football related subjects (knitting maybe?) his posting style would be in exactly the same vein, that of the pedantic ****-stirrer. COYG
What doesn't surprise me is that an inflammatory and insulting post containing such made up and falsely assumed gumph is thumbed up by PISKIE, a supposed mod.
Posts like this are part of the problem. People aren't realising how far our expectations have eroded over the last 10 years. From people saying that we could go on to achieve greatness and potentially build a title-winning side again to now saying that we're lucky to be where we are and that we should be grateful that we're even in with a chance of winning trophies every season (which we never usually are). This type of deflection tactic is something I'd expect from Kroenke or Wenger. Not from a Leicester or any football fan. The idea that we should console ourselves with the fact that "it could be worse" is just pathetic really. Especially when we know we are capable of doing a lot better than we've been showing.
... no ... the fact that you 'expect' it should be better is simply arrogance ... you are not in a league like in France, Germany, Spain or Scotland ...you are in the EPL where there is no divine right to win .. accept it or go support Celtic where you can proudly sport your winning replica shirt to massage your ego ..
There's your problem in a nutshell...it aint a case of things could be worse...it is a case of things are nowhere near as bad as you lot pretend. TWO fa cups in the past 3 seasons and you are whining about not being Champions this season? Seriously? You can only try and win 4 trophies in a season...you dismiss one as a "mickey mouse cup", you've won another twice in the past 3 seasons and in the CL are up against Barca, RM, BM etc (all of whom have piss easy leagues so their players are not stretched and tested week in week out) so you need a certain amount of luck in winning that one and the premier league which is a seriously hard trophy to win...that's why there have only been 5 different winners of it in 24 years. The whinging posts reek of entitlement and arrogance.
But where does it end? If we got relegated should we be happy that we're not in league 1? If we got relegated two years in a row, should we be happy we're not in league 2? If we got relegated three years in a row, went into administration, had to play amateurs, should we be happy that we still existed as a club? It's like telling a very clever student that they should be happy they messed up their exam and only got B as it could have been worse as they could have gotten a C. You can't have the same expectations of everyone. A B from a clever student who did no work is more of a failure than a student who gets a B having worked their socks off and only ever got Ds before. It is a fact that all clubs have different expectations. If you think all clubs should be happy about the same things then you're being simplistic. Clubs are not equal. Some make far more money than others. Some spend far more money than others. It is only therefore logical that the expectations of clubs are not equal. Our situation is different to Newcastle, Spurs and Leciester right now so our expectations should logically be different to Newcastle, Leicester and Spurs (at the moment). That may change in the future, but it isn't the case now. I'm not overly fussed about the winning of trophies. What I'm fussed about is supporting a club that shows vague ambition and has expectations that match it's own situation... I'm fussed about supporting a team of footballers who care and try. If I was a supporter of Spurs right now I'd be happy. They probably won't win a trophy this year but they've got a manager who is showing ambition and they've got players who are trying and clearly care. It just so happens that I support a club that also has loads of money and therefore I feel that my 'wants' should also have translated to more success on the field than we've had. But trophies aren't the one thing I strive for... they are simply a by-product of what I want and the fact I support a club that has a lot of money. It's the same for national team. They could win the world cup or euro's and I'd be over the moon with pride. But they most likely won't because they don't have anywhere the quality of players to do it. But them not winning doesn't bother me. What bothers me is the lack of ambition from Hodgson, the same boring players picked everytime based on reputation rather than form, the turgid tactics, the lack of fight from the players. If those were fixed I'd love our national team again, winning or not winning. Euro 96 was one of the fondest footballing memories I have and we won nothing. It's about having pride in who you support... and it's hard to be proud of a club whose manager and team so often show such little character and desire to improve.
To be honest, fans have every right to comment on what and how their club is run. They buy tickets and support their team. Even if it conflicts your own views, they are still entitled to them and it doesn't make them even less wrong. It's good to have contrasting views
That is all well argued but doesn't alter the fact that in the 50 years before Wenger you won a trophy every 4 years and in the 20 years under Wenger you've won a trophy every two years on average. It seems much more likely to me that a new manager will return you to the trophy every four years record rather than improve things. Arsenal have always been one of the richest clubs in England. You've underachieved before Wenger and you could easily do that again.
Garbage. Plain and simple. Garbage. Why shouldn't I expect the 7th or 8th richest club in the world, who have more cash reserves than almost all PL clubs combined and a shareholder that is worth £10bn, to be performing better than what they've been showing? That's not arrogance, that's being realistic. Arsenal fans have every right to be pissed off. Your comments are ridiculous.
...now you're being daft .. we went down to League 1 for the first time in our history a few years ago ... of course we were not happy ... but there was no point whinging that we were actually richer than some clubs still in the Championship and therefore they should be in league One instead ... Doesn't matter how rich a club is - that gives you an advantage - not divine right. Otherwise everyone else but the four richest may just as well give up and accept they have no right to develop into good footballing teams and challenge for a CL spot ... it MUST always be first and foremost about what you do on the pitch - wealth does not guarantee success once the 22 players have taken the field... thank God.
... simple ... because currently clubs with less wealth have built better 'teams' and are out performing you ... that you are seemingly unwilling to accept that as part of footballing life is pure arrogance. Plus - are you willing therefore to accept that you can (and should) NEVER win the Champions League because there are at least six clubs wealthier than Arsenal? ... suspect not
