Match Day Thread 2015/16 Premier League, Cups & Euro Watch

as IBWT told me I was typing myself.. once more great minds and all that.

Bascially the rule suits the italians down to the ground as juve as assured of winning the league in italy as its imploded. This emans they will be top seeds and in last 16 every time.

For england this year we've seen the strong english clubs really **** up and not only have leicester had a dream run but spurs look well on for winnin git too.

As a result england will struggle more in CL next year and play into the italian clubs hands.

We could do with one of our english clubs in europa going to final.

Spurs did well knocking out an italian for us and roma have only done as well as chelsea this year.

Juve v bayern is now vital for england. the germans must do ove rthe italians for us and then city go further than them.

One of utd and lfc will be in QF.

 

The introduction of Champions being in pot one was to avoid countries dominating pot one. Until this season, pot one regularly had two or three teams from English, Spanish and German in it.

 

You mean West Ham Utd? Because Man Utd are 6th in the PL and 8th in the form league so have no chance of top 4

 

Everton's next fixtures are Chelsea (FA Cup), Arsenal, Man Utd

So if we get decent results against Man Utd, we might not see @Tobes back on here until mid-April

 

I'm merely point out utd have a chance due to their uefa coefficient of coming through groups.

West ham if they get in will be 4th ranked and hammered.

 

Pun intended?

 

Thought the Chavs gave it a good go last night but ran into a decent team in PSG.

Looks like the FA cup is their only route into Europe (and chance of a trophy) Much as we all dislike them, their input to our co-ef and ranking will be missed.

Last 5 years co-ef points by english teams:
Chelsea 135.78
Arsenal 104.78
Cty 91.78
Utd 75.08
Spurs 73.79
Liverpool 38.37

As it stands we should have enough to hold Italy off this season and keep 4 spots for the 2017/18 CL.
Current rankings:
Spain 98.1
Germany 77.6
England 73.9
Italy 70.2

Next year will be tougher as we lose a decent gap to them from 11/12 points.

 

yes indeed

I wondered if anyone would note.

 

If you look at it however chesle's contribution of the past 5 years has been symptomatic of the issue

33.050
30.285
28.357
23.714
20.175

They've been going less and less far every year.... note rafa's europa league cup is in there.....

Leicester replace them and if they do what i kind of expect they might be good for say 3rd in group if they actually retain thier 3 best players. that will be 15 odd points back.. maybe Utd so far have delivered 12.

Arsenals record is as bad

2.050
21.285
21.357
22.714
17.175



The message is that the english clubs are winning less games in europe and are prioritising the league at home and settling for draws. You have to win games to get coefficient points. the further you go the more points as well.

This is utd

16.050
21.285
26.357
2.714 -- thats a big drop to them
12.175

this shows how over 5 years they've dropped off.

tottenham (without trying much in europa) are 21st seeds

10.050
19.285
18.357
11.714
12.175

LFC
3.050 no europe
12.285
3.357 no europe
12.714
11.175


we need to work hard over next 2 years to ensure we are in europe so losing capital one cup final was a blow. We are nowhere near assured of europe next year. in fact we are not even favorites to get it. we must get 6th and utd and west ham are better than us.

 

we should be fighting to over take the germans but the shalkes and wolfsburgs of this world are better than us and sadly augsburg showed how technically superior they were to LFC. This should not even be a debate but it is.

Why?

the rising tide had not lifted all boats. the top clubs are pish technically. we cannot defend properly and cannot retain any possession.

 

Yeah.

Spain is utterly dominant in the ranking with a gap as big as ever seen on the back of Barca and Real being serial contenders allied with the rise of Athletico Madrid and strong performances in the Europa from other teams.

Germany can rely on Bayern and back up from a couple of other teams.

We are nowhere near the golden years of 2005-11 but still rack up points for teams reaching the early KO stages.

Italy are improving but have only Juve likely to make any serious impact on the CL.

The key going forward, is an improved showing in the EL, which given the carrot of CL qualification, might now happen.

 

yes and no.

Yes you are mostly right

No because we've not enough europa spots.

As perverse as it sounds the best thing for england is to follow utd's path of being just bad enough to end up out of cl in 3rd spot and then win europa, or at least go to semis.

With 4 in the CL you would hope all 4 could be 1 or 2 seeds but the new system makes that all but impossible. To be a no 2 seed you have to be in the top 16 clubs in europe but as arsenal and city show its not easy. they are just managing it. If this means we get all clubs to last 16 of CL great but thats 20 points each.. and not enough

The champions have to get through their group first and get to QFs. but those in second place will have barca, bayern or juv waiting.... the issue is PSG have been handing chelsea their heads every year without fail as well.

I think the problem we cannot get aroud with europa is the groups are piss easy but the last 32 and last 16 are backed into too tight a time frame for engilish clubs and the league cup clahses big time with it plus no winter break.

Its a very tall order to get to QF.

 

Thankfully Italy have the same problem in the CL but with only 3 teams (and only Juve anywhere near good enough)

 

Scary how much England has regressed over the years.

But with the likes of Klopp, Pep and potentially Conte, it could be on its way up.

 

I noticed. It was harder not too lol

 

Its not a total of all teams, it's an average so having only 3 teams doesn't make as much difference as having 4

 

this is true.

I think we over estimate their teams.

Roma are good no question, they got dumped out of cl by real madrid

Juve are way ahead and unfortunately its suspiciously so (again) they are assured of winning that title for the next few years one feels.

napoli are closest to them this year, but are only in europa and actually got knocked out by villareal in last 32.

Fiorentina got done by spurs in last 32 or europa.


lazio are in last 16 of europa now.

So.....

Right now if juve lose to bayern. (2-2 with two away goals conceded) then that means only lazio will remain in europa and england will have city in Qf (no chance to go further) and at least one club in QF of europa. (maybe two)

I don't underestimate how poor english football is however.

We simply cannot organise a defense worth a dman not control a midfield and retain possession.

I think the big challenge is getting 3/4 clubs up there at the top with stability. Wenger is a stable manager with long service and is consistent... a consistent failure but two fa cups in two years has bought him time. Pelligrini is gone and citeh have guardiola coming. utd are not stable, chelsea are in no way stable, leicester and west ham are not experienced. Liverpool wasted 3 years with a nobody in charge and changed again to klopp so need to establish stability over the next while.

spurs are the most stable but only after 18 months of Pinocchio... he's gone and done well but can they keep it going?

We will see.

Its very hard to have stability when theres 7 clubs for 4 spots and those who don't get there are sacked

In spain actually there are only 3 sides for the top 4 with one spot seemingly spare that nobody can really dominate. seville is in there now. valencia are fighting internally over it.

Atletico are atletico and stable now, barca are a machine. real are amazingly unstable yet so rich it doesn't seem to matter.

 

That's true but you get relatively big points for reaching the CL KO's (look at Arsenals euro ranking) and there are more bonus points available in the CL than EL so it's still a slight advantage.

 

We have dropped a little since our high ranking point of 2011 but it's skewed by the rise of Italy and the stellar ascent of Spain.

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note: 2016 ranking will change with this seasons results.

 

you would hope that the thing these coaches do is organise a defense.

Thus far klopp started out ok but with the games he didn poorly then.

I hope we can see klopp show that set pieces can be defended and get our systems right.