Off Topic Political Debate

Leaving the EU wouldn't necessarily free us from bureaucracy anyway. We would, I assume, remain members of a whole raft of international organisations and many have fairly complex rules and procedures we have to follow. The EU Commission does most of that on our behalf right now. To trade with Member States we would still need to comply with relevant EU directives and I suspect some non EU countries have even more stringent rules. Last, and probably most relevant, is that politicians of all persuasions absolutely love making rules - members of the no camp probably already have alist! That said, I agree with the basic premise that the Commission needs to be reformed to reduce bureaucracy

 

There was a very interesting piece in my French newspaper yesterday trying to get some facts about how things would be sorted out if the UK voted to leave. Clearly it was not for UK readers, so could hardly be accused of scare tactics one way or the other. A German lawyer was explaining that he had been looking into the current rules that govern just the City of London relationship with the EU. Out of many hundreds he had looked at just 50. His opinion was that it would take years to sort out as specialist lawyers would be required to work for the City, the EU, the UK and all of the other EU countries on every rule. There could not be a block changeover. After everything had been disentangled it could take several more years to put fresh agreements in place. His view was that there are not enough lawyers to go round. With the proposed tie up between the London and German Stock markets some time could be saved if more of the business currently done in London was transferred to Frankfurt, but then there would be a whole new area of transaction taxes that would have to be tackled.

 

.... and how long would the markets waver during any such process.....

 

Seems as if the German finance minister has today confirmed what the lawyer was saying.

German finance minister Wolfgang Schaeuble conceded that the UK could negotiate a new trade deal to stay inside the single market - a free trade zone across all 28 EU countries - without being a member of the EU.
However, he said, a UK decision to leave would cause "years of the most difficult negotiations".
"For years we would have such insecurity it would be a poison to the economy in the UK, the European continent and the global economy as well,"

 

That's OK then - years of insecurity - but the likes of Johnson, Gove, Duncan Smith, Farage won't suffer, will they?

 

Herr Schaeuble has an interest to keep the UK within the EU, he will say anything to help Cameron keep us subservient to the unelected Eurocrats. It has proved impossible to halt these fiddling masters from within. Let us take back control and trade freely with the world.

 

You just show your lack of reading SH. Stop looking at what you want to see, and take a broader look. Others with no axe to grind have said you are wrong. To quote other failed ministers and a politician with his own agenda does your case little good. Give a decent account of why the London Stock market wants to join up with the German one as a junior partner in a proper manner and we might take some notice of your arguments. So far you have failed to put forward a fact as opposed to a guess. Would you like to comment on the number of lawyers that would be required across the EU to untangle the rules and regulations that the UK is signed up to? I await a proper response from you that is not from some outside source, but your own reasoning.

 

I fully understand the fear the current eurocrats are showing on Brexit. They know full well that a successful divorce will encourage other countries especially from Southern Europe to exit this failed organisation. The Euro is deeply flawed, growth has stalled, the Schengen Agreement is in tatters and there is increased hostility amongst members.

I can only imagine the pressure the German car industry will put on its politicians to make sure its lucrative UK market is not put at risk, especially after the recent financial hit to Volkswagen due to it cheating customers.

You must be gullible to listen to self interested parties peddling doom and gloom. You do not possess facts, just selected opinions.

 

So once again you cannot provide any arguments, just vague theories. Sorry but you just look more and more desperate without providing any evidence for your opinions. Speaking of the car industry, why is Nissan hedging it's bets by investing more into the EU just in case?

 

It is clear you lack any kind of understanding of finance but to help you understand just listen to the respected former Governor of the Bank of England, Melvyn King. He has forecasted that the Euro is set to lurch from crisis to crisis then end in disintegration. He said "Monetary union has created a conflict between a centralised elite on the one hand, and the focus of democracy at the national level on the other. This is extremely dangerous." He also agreed with my assertion above by saying "Struggling economies in Southern Europe such as Greece could only become competitive again by giving up the Euro."

A Bretix would not only free the UK of the ever increasing drag on commerce but also help many other countries desperately suffering within a failed political experiment. This issue is much more important than a slight delay at borders.

 

So no comment on the lack of lawyers, no comment on the Stock exchange, no comment on industry hedging it's bets. You must try harder to address the issues. Lord King refused to say if he wanted to leave or stay, so not much help for your cause there.

 

The comments above from Lord King are self explanatory, they clearly portray his utter lack of confidence in the EU.

The majority of economists have broadly agreed that Bretix would likely produce a financially neutral outcome. More important to me is to regain sovereignty over UK laws and to have the ability to control our own borders.

Rather than cling on to desperate utterances of nonentities you should also listen to that well known europhile, Nigel Lawson. I once had a long chat with him at Toulouse airport as he waited for his Flyby flight. Although he loves living in the Gers, his vast experience of legislative interference from Brussels and the dangers of ever closer political union has entrenched him in the 'leave' camp. He supported the common market but not the present undemocratic monstrosity that Cameron failed to address at all during his recent negotiations.

 

Yet another answer where you fail to address my questions. You are not doing your case any good at all. I can also quote conversations with my neighbour Michael Hesseltine, but you would not wish to hear about things from a deputy Prime Minister. Time to get a grip SH and stop looking like a voice piece for Farage and Galloway.

 

I would rather listen to one of the most experienced chancellors with a vast amount of knowledge of legislative matters than a businessman with a selfish agenda.

You need to raise the quality of your irrelevant questioning and take notice of people that have actual experience in the subject.
It was was only a few weeks ago that you were denying there was a problem with the Schengen Agreement, the manufacturers of barbed wire and fencing have had a roaring trade. One by one the pillars of the undemocratic political elite are falling, even if the UK stays in it is becoming increasingly obvious that it is only a matter of time before it changes dramatically. The only thing the EU has achieved is to strengthen the far right.

 

The far right is being strengthen by Putin who wants to see a split in the EU. Before you say anything else silly there is evidence, something you seem to be short on. Get out of your bubble SH, there is a big wide world out there.

 

Funny how apparently everybody on here needs to raise the quality of their arguments apart from yourself SH. it's all becoming a little tiresome. Have you ever stopped to consider that if the EU. does have a problem with Schengen and the refugee crisis that this has a lot to do with Britain and America's irresponsible military actions of the past re. Iraq which helped to destabilize the whole region. Had the EU. been in the position to present a united front on this issue (along with France and Germany) then things might have turned out differently.

 

Free trade with all nations does not exist for any country in the world. There is free trade amongst blocks of countries but any country not in a block has to make many. many independent agreements, not only with individual trading partners, but also with the blocks in which those countries are members. Trading agreements are only made if there is a benefit to all parties involved. If a country is in desperate need of those trading agreements their bargaining power is severely reduced.

It may be that a future UK government would feel comfortable with its ability to make beneficial agreements if the UK leaves the EU. It may also be felt perfectly possible that the delay in making those agreements will not hamper the negotiations, and that both suppliers and importers will not find alternative markets whilst those agreements are being worked out. I have no idea on what the consequences will be. I assume that the supporters of Brexit have taken these points into consideration.
From the point of view of NZ, there is still a fair amount of bitterness over the way the Commonwealth preferential agreements were overthrown when the UK joined the EU, and there is now a lack of trust in agreements made by any UK government. New Zealand has now set the bar much higher, when dealing with 'perfidious Albion'.

 

I have not as yet dealt with a further news item regarding the migrants at Calais. Once again it was for the French digestion and not designed to have any influence on the UK discussions. Some people do not realise that in parts of this country there is real anger about Cameron offering more money to keep the problem of migrants away from England. Stop the UK border controls in France and let them deal with the problems we have, comes from regional government and a lot of the population in the north of the country. I can understand their feelings, but also can see the huge problems that would be created at the ferry ports such as Dover. One frequent carrier of goods from England to the EU has said that he feels threatened by the fines that could imposed if migrants get onto one of his lorries and are not found before he arrives in England.
The French/UK deal is outside of the EU, but leave the EU and the mood will change very quickly to one of why should we help a country that doesn't want to be working to solve a huge problem alongside us.

 

A similar situation exists in Belgium Frenchie, when you get onto the Eurostar for the rail journey from Brussels to London you go through British passport controls in Brussels. Once outside the EU. things could get more difficult and those same controls could then be in St. Pancras upon arrival.

 

For some reason the expression 'perfidious Albion' seems to becoming well used in France as well.