Off Topic Political Debate

Can I add Switzerland was the ideal country to base crooked organisations like FIFA due to its secrecy laws.

 

But in reality the agreements are with the EEA or EEC, a trade agreement, not as in the EU political union./ So the UK just say to China - "Look you see that we have existed Political Union with the EU, how about we carry on with the same trade agreement between our 2 countries?"

 

Makes sense. I cannot see any reason to deviate from these. The problem is this sensible policy blows the 'remain' camp's argument away. They desperately need to create fear if possible.

 

By `The home of financial shenanigans, drug an crime proceeds etc.' I presume that you are describing the city of London - which has its own laws, its own police, pays its own taxes, and has its own Lord Mayor (all of which is mostly not known by the British population. Try looking at the amount of dirty Russian and Arab money invested in the housing markets of Kensington and Chelsea before pointing the finger at Switzerland. By 'German looted money' I think you are referring to the second world war here - are you not ashamed of this comment ? Switzerland was surrounded by Vichy France, Germany, Austria and Fascist Italy and only preserved its neutrality through these means - but it was a neutrality which,at the same time, saved the lives of thousands of Jews fleeing via Switzerland. You pick out FIFA, but say nothing about the Geneva Convention, or Amnesty international, or any number of similar organizations which have made their homes in Switzerland.

 

Are you denying the Germans stored most of their looted proceeds with swiss banks that presumably had some idea of what was going on?

FIFA chose Switzerland so it had corporate and personal facilities to hide the proceeds of fiddling for decades. It was, and presumably still is, the safety deposit box for despots around the world like Mugabe. I am amazed you are defending the bastion of crooked capitalism.

 

Sorry but the statement "Switzerland is insignificant on the world stage compared to the UK" beggers belief and demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of the real movers and shakers in the upper echelons of world business and finance. There is a current battle between Switzerland and the USA but the swiss are pretty much holding their corner. From your mid sized company international perspective if you keep the blinkers on you may believe that. Dig behind the scenes and you'll find another story. I suggest you pop to Zurich/Geneva and play a few rounds of golf and have a few late night drinks with some of the drivers there, might open your eyes! Logically if we move out of the EU there will be a 2 to 5 year transition period where every EU deal we have is renegotiated into a country specific one. In all probability we will emerge with similar before and after trade tariff relationships with no gap (its in nobodys interest to have a degradation of terms). Its all conjecture though and the end result will be driven by what big business desires not by logic.

 

You should try to understand that the 'world stage' is more than a few heads of multinationals. The UK is a nuclear power, a permanent member of the UN security Council, the second largest economy in Europe, fifth largest economy in the world, important member of the commonwealth and considered a vital political ally by the USA. Can you understand that from your village shop mentality?

I agree on the deals.

 

But that does not explain that Switzerland (and Austria) have spent years blocking the return of Cash, Gold & Art Treasures plundered by the Nazi's and held in their banks. Why did they not return these as soon as requested?

 

Are you not utterly ashamed by daring to comment on this inconvenient subject?

 

The government is about to publish what has been described as a 'dodgy dossier' claiming the UK would be 'weaker, less safe and worse off' outside the EU.

This has all the hallmarks of the recently employed work of the original spin doctor, Lord Mandelson. This is the guy that admitted his Labour government opened the flood gates to migrants to bolster their chances at election time. He was twice forced to resign from the government only to use his questionable 'talents' as Britain's European Commissioner.

 

Yes, you have a point here. However, I do not point a finger at a whole nation as a result of this. Would I condemn everything to do with Chelsea Football Club - their fans and everything else, because we do not know exactly where Abramovich's money comes from. Do you know where all of the Pozzo's money comes from ? The World Jewish Congress estimates lost Jewish wealth from this period as being around 9-14 billion dollars worth - most of this never reached Switzerland. Germany's two biggest banks acted as receivers of stolen Jewish property. Much Jewish wealth was in the form of life insurance policies - 16 European insurers are targets of lawsuits in this connection (none of them Swiss). Even Norway has approved a fund of 58.6 million dollars for holocaust survivors. Britain has only recently allowed 25,000 individuals (mostly Jewish) to reclaim deposits in British banks - which had been confiscated because they were then technically citizens of enemy countries. So, if you are going to wag fingers of guilt around then do it more liberally. Do you know where all of the money circulating in the city of London comes from ? If not then do not be so ready to point the finger of guilt at others.

 

Those who came in had no voting rights in general elections so stop regurgitating such crap !

 

Abramovich and Putin's dodgy funds are squirrelled away nicely in Switzerland. Chelsea FC should be liquidated and their best players offered to WFC on free transfers. That would teach those nasty soviet capitalists a lesson.

 

It's pretty appalling. Instead of hiding away everything that has been looted whilst invading and ransacking other countries they should put it all on display. Maybe the curators of the British Museum could give them some advice on how best to do it.

 

Did Britain commit mass genocide and exterminate millions of people whilst "ransacking" some of the BM exhibits? Elgin lifted the Parthenon Marbles at a time when Greece was under the occupation of the Turks and the whole of the Acropolis was left to rot after the ammunition dump explosion hundreds of years before. But I do not see using the Elgin Marbles or Cleopatra's Needle as any justification of the behaviour of the Swiss and Austrian governments to refuse to return items plundered from individuals in the holocaust. Austria refused to return a painting to the family of it's owners because it was hung in it's national gallery.
If you wish to condone the behaviour of these governments, because other governments have ransacked items hundreds of years ago, then that is for your own conscience.
I also think you missed the irony of superhorns comment - in Internetspeak, I think it's called a Whoosh!

 

Pozzo's made their money from selling Powertools and then selling the business to fund their football business. Apart from this old story about a betting problem, there has never been any indication that their wealth has came from anything but good old honest businesses.
I do not point fingers at the nation or the vast majority of it's citizens - but I point the finger at their governments and their Bankers that have allowed very questionable people to hide their ill-gotten gains in their banks with no questions asked. Not just the Nazi's or the Russian Mafia, but also the likes of Idi Amin and other African dictators that squirrelled their wealth away and in some cases be allowed to live there. Where do you think all the dodgy dealings in FIFA were funnelled through?
Regarding Britain, I do not believe your description is factually correct. This is the description from the RestoreUK web-site:-
UK Government research indicates that after WWII many of the previously frozen assets were collected in by the Government and transferred to the relevant foreign governments who undertook to meet their own citizens claims directly. Some assets, including bank accounts, were either returned to their original owners by the Government or released.
Some of these accounts released to the banks by the Government were never claimed. While these funds were available to be claimed at any time it is possible that some account holders or their heirs may not have been aware of their existence. So far as has been practicable a number of banks, working in conjunction with the BBA, have undertaken a computerised matching exercise, which compares the names of their unclaimed accounts from the wartime period with records of those assets, which were subject to the Governments control.
So Britain would seem to have behaved in a far more open and honest manner regarding these frozen (NOT stolen) accounts - you might need to find a better example.

 

So the markets have been reacting negatively to Brexit, costing us a fortune in debt repayments.

UK business, have, on average, been reacting negatively to the idea of Brexit.

Most leading economists have been warning about the risks of Brexit.

Even some Tories are concerned with Brexit

The Stay-In campaign has been labelled 'Project Fear' for warning of possible consequences of Brexit.

The Brexit campaign has been labelled 'Project Fantasy' as it basically has no evidence of any potential benefits to the UK, just hope and dreams.

The options are either

1. Stay in the EU
2. Reform the EU
3. Enjoy the benefits being an EU member has to offer

Or

1. Leave the EU
2. ????????
3. We're all rich and live happily ever after

It should be an obvious choice...

 

Seeing as the Brexiters have gone quite quiet and I'm a bit drunk, can someone honestly answer this question?

Are you happy that you're aligning yourselves with the BNP and their members? The Brexit vote won't be decided on trade deals, immigration will be the clincher. It's always good to check who's on your side.

 

Doesn't bother me. I'm pretty sure it doesn't bother you being aligned to the tory party.

 

'Amusing' reading the Telegraph at the mo.... they don't know which way to turn....page after page.... What I find most interesting is the 'abuse' by both sides on the back of keeping it a polite campaign.... just doesn't seem possible for many key players... .and given that the undecided electorate need facts to go on... not at all helpful.

I still continue to find little evidence to justify leaving.

Immigration needs sorting ... yes and will have to be anyway
EU bureaucracy is a labyrinthe..... yes and will need attention

Apart from that i see no hard evidence that my or my family's life will improve is we leave.

Furthermore given the present uncertainty and the effect on the markets.... if we vote for out.... the markets will continue to reflect uncertainty and affect our economy accordingly.