Off Topic Political Debate

If as a researcher I cannot find information in one place then I would look elsewhere. My understanding is that the civil service needs to be able to change policy from one day to the next when there is a change of government. I am sure that months of planning will have gone into the possibility of a change taking place, so it is not a great surprise when a new regime wants to change a policy. Their job is to try and make the new ideas work within what already exists and cannot be unpicked at the drop of a hat. I guess that if an opposition MP wishes to have some information on a government proposal there would be channels he/she would have to go through and it would be up to the government to say if that information should be available. The MPs who are pushing for exit have effectively put themselves into opposition to the government, so should not be treated any differently.

 

Just as an additional thought, we talk about government and parliament as an item which can be confusing. Too often we hear of MPs complaining that the government is not paying due respect to the house.

 

You shouldn't be so depreciating about the ladies in your party. I know quite a lot who are very nice and do not have blue rinses.

 

You have obviously been out of touch for too long. To call the grass roots of the Tory Party 'the blue rinse brigade' is a well used friendly term. Why do you think having a blue rinse is necessarily a bad thing?

 

I think that is what disappoints me most. It is so easy to resort to insults to counter perceived insults and so it goes on....

Given that we all between us know a number of good 'friends' have left this board because of the insults.... why carry it on?

It is most unlikely that any of us will change our underlying views and hectoring just makes people more dare I say entrenched

Can we not debate in a reasonable manner and not fall to the level our friends in parliament

 

Project fear tactics is full swing this morning 'BRITONS WILL BE FORCED TO STOP LIVING IN FRANCE AND SPAIN IF BREXIT HAPPENS' Astoundingly David Lidington, the Europe minister has managed to utter this drivel with a straight face.

Tomorrows headline will be 'EXPATS FACE GUILLOTINE IF BREXIT HAPPENS'

 

Yorkie I had hoped that using irony to try and highlight again that copying and pasting large tracts of text and trying pass them off as "facts" and proof of an argument, does not prove anything apart the ability to use Google and a couple of Control Characters and might have elicited a more coherent response. But as usual I got the usual abuse, so it seems that for some being challenged, can only be answered with abuse. But I will carry on and try and raise the level of debate.

 

I am quite surprised at the position on this matter from posters who I have always considered as having a more liberal outlook and would be normally appalled at the apparatus of government withholding information that is not sensitive from elected ministers and the general public.
Interesting that no one has addressed the point regarding the Freedom of Information and how regularly bodies like the BBC use this to request information that is not in the public domain. I can see the government getting into some difficulties if they refuse to provide not-sensitive information requested under a Freedom of Information request.
Personally I have never supported political union with the EU and in particular the Maastricht and Lisbon treaties, but if I did not, I would still expect my government to be even handed with supplying key information. Withholding relevant information would appear that someone has something to hide?

 

The government is expected to be pressed to make a commons statement on the access issue. Sir Jeremy Haywood has been accused by a cabinet minister of exceeding his authority in the way the rules are implemented.

Downing St indicated it would not back down on the issue.

 

I did in general but in terms of this particular referendum we don't know how it will work yet . Of course one way to find out would be to send in an FoI request

 

In my experience the FOI request is pretty useless. I requested innfo as to how our money had been spent on the recently ditched CCS projects knowing that 100 million of the budgeted million had been used up prior to the headlines being written. I got told I couldn't get that info due to commercial trust issues, bull if you ask me, spend my yaxes you have to tell me on what!! Whole system stinks of corruption.

 

Just an example of an area where the EU. very much needs strengthened powers. The nuclear reactors of Tihange (in Belgium - 60 km. from Aachen) and Doel (close to Antwerp, a few km. from the Dutch border) are the oldest reactors used in Europe. Both have had emergencies over the last few years as a result of fires and failed pumps. Radioactive water actually seeped out of the cooling installation at Tihange without the underlying cause ever being found. An unexploded bomb from the first World War was also found there. In Doel there was an act of sabotage recently which led to the site having to be temporarily run down. All of this within measurable distance of the Dutch and German borders - and radioactive substances are subject to prevailing wind directions not border controls. The Belgian government has allowed continued operation even though there were cracks found in the pressure containers. Planned to close in 2015, they have both been given new lease of life until 2025. Due to opposition in Belgium, the Netherlands and Germany the case is being taken before the European courts - a recourse which is only possible through this medium (and not on the national level). Surely a case like this proves the value of regulatory international regulations rather than a return to individual states doing as they wish.

 

No

 

On the Referendum... check your area

http://yougov.co.uk/yougov-8545/?preview=1&draft=1&language=en

 

Very interesting Yorkie. Apparently the major issues are immigration and the protection of the city of London. Yet the most anti European areas are Cumbria, Somerset, Suffolk, Lincs. etc. areas which know precious little about either theme - so on what basis are they forming their opinions ?

 

Problem is Cologne is where does the line get drawn? It's understandable where countries have land borders that there would be concern over environmental issues at some facility just across the border, but where does it stop? If Germany are in opposition will Austria join them?
Can someone request that British cars are banned from Europe because they are RH drive and thus are dangerous when driven in Europe?

 

Problems with nuclear power plants would have consequences over very large areas W_Y not just over the border - the consequences of Chernobyl were experienced in parts of Germany and Chernobyl is much further away from here than eg. Britain is. Regarding your second case - if there was statistical proof that British RH drive cars actually cause more accidents on Continental roads (or even the other way around) then there would be a case for banning them.

 

Very interesting. You can see pockets from each camp that are directly influenced by their own experience i.e. West Wales which receives a lot of EU grants as they are considered a area of depravation and a place like Peterborough that has been massively impacted by economic migration - there was a feature just the other night on Look East about the number of new school places that are having to be built to cope with the large increase in population.
However looking at the sample sizes and again the danger of the contributors to these type of polls as seen in the last General Election, I wonder just how representative it is?

 

What about another of your fav topics, pollution caused by jet fuel? Can Germany ban flights from overflying Germany to reduce it's pollution?
Well there are statistics that show the number of accidents on British motorways caused by trucks with LH drives i.e. from Europe is totally unrepresentative of the numbers on the roads. Time to call for a ban on them from Britain's road - some Spanish truck driver who was not concentrating took me out on a roundabout last year!