Just to ensure some won't need a double dose of blood pressure tablets ................. I did not vote, I just offer my opinion, nothing more.
I voted out, and will do for the referendum. Why would we want to stay part of a flawed political arrangement ? National security and immigration control would be enhanced, because WE could control our borders. Economically would be enhanced, because we could return to a flexible, dynamic, red tape free economy, enacting policies that directly enhance British interests.
I will be ticking the 'out' box. I see no advantage to Britain being part of the EU, we contribute obscene amounts of money to Brussels and they try to dictate our laws and regulations. In spite of all the scare mongering I don't think it will affect UK employment one iota
To comply with cor blimey's comment I'll not vote on this poll even though I'm not a "Johnny Foreigner" as he so succinctly put it, but will say that I really don't envy those in the UK trying to cut through the rhetoric of both sides and to find the real reasons for voting either way. From what I've heard it seems that both sides are getting into points scoring and personality issues rather than simply and clearly putting their respective view points across. To think there's another 4 months to go, maybe the fog will clear closer to the time. Meanwhile we've got our own General Election tomorrow and at last there's a media embargo from 2pm today, so at least we don't have to listen to the relentless bun fights that have gone on for the past 3 weeks......
Can't stand the man, but unfortunately the choice is pretty dire and the opposition party need another 10 years or so in opposition due to the way the country was screwed by them......
Interesting stuff. With PR, who decides who has which constituency? Who would my MP be? (I've not a clue who it is now. Some faceless Tory bloke I assume.)
I'd say the same about the Labour Party here, but no doubt there are some on this board that will disagree...
The language used to express a lot of the 'out' arguments - 'them and us' 'they dictate to us' 'no advantage for us' etc - which I am sure reflect sincerely held views - strengthens my feeling that we are not right for the EU. To make it work it can't be 'us and them' just all of us, not 'our advantage' but everyone's advantage. The rules of this club aren't specifically created to piss off the British, they apply to all the member states (although rather fewer of them apply to us than say the Germans). I really believe if you have the 'them and us' mindset but may vote to stay in for economic reasons, you should think again.
I voted to stay in. Obviously this is partly selfishly due to living on the continent, and not wanting the fuss of visa stuff. I can't see how leaving will help the UK economy as it will open up all sorts of problems/barriers/potential costs when the UK trades with EU countries. At the moment, the U.K. has the benefits of trade, and partnership with the EU, without the restrictions of a currency controlled from Brussels, so why leave?
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." The irony here is that it was the brilliant Irish Eighteenth century philosopher, Edmund Burke, who said it.
I don't buy the arguments for staying in. Why would anyone suddenly need a visa? The Swiss have freedom of movement to and from the EU I believe. Trade? Bilateral trade agreements don't require the EU. There are loads of Free Trade Areas, Customs Unions etc. in the world. Working time directive? Who's to say what the law would be if we weren't in the EU. I don't see why your working conditions would change. It says you can't work more than 48 hours a week but I'm sure many on here do.
We never had to have visa's in the past to travel in Western Europe as it was, before the Eastern block countries were admitted in to the "family" so do see that as an issue now...... I'll add that the Scandi countries seem to be okay being outside the EU family but also enjoy the trade benefits that being part of the EU has to offer......maybe that's the way to go?
Just on the visa thing, the Swiss and Norwegians accept freedom of movement from the EU - there is no cap on immigration from EU countries as part of their trade deals with the EU. The Swiss had a referendum on this and voted to put limits in place, which will jeopardise the trade agreement. Both these countries also agree to adopt EU standards and regulations and make a financial contribution to the EU equivalent to what they would pay as full members. They are members of the European Economic Area. Presumably the UK would not join this area if it left (if immigration is the biggest issue surely we need to have visa arrangements which would doubtless work both ways) but negotiate separate trade agreements with the EU and EEA. I read somewhere that we would have to negotiate 31 trade agreements to replace the ones we are currently part of through the EU. The EU - US negotiations have been going on since 1995, on and off, and are not scheduled to finish until 2019. These things are not easy or quick to put in place, especially because they impact on and have to take into account all other agreements the countries may have. Working conditions may not change. But they could. George Osborne is always going on about our relatively poor productivity. Here's a way to improve it - work a couple of hours extra every week for no extra pay.
You may need a visa because we wouldn't be part of any free movement of the EU, the Swiss have their own agreement in place and it would be nieve to assume that we would automatically get the same or any kind of trade agreement, the big players in he EU don't won't it to break up, if we leave then allowing us to pick and choose what we want would only encourage more countries to do the same, it's in their interest to block us off from any kind of good deals. You can work more then 48 hours a week if you actively sign out, if you don't then your employer can not force you to, leaving the EU means the government in power can retract that and your employer could force you to work however many hours they wanted. I'm actually on the fence on this, there are pros and cons to both and I'll need to see more information before I can decide. What I don't think I've seen anyone mention is that if we leave the EU it will certainly result in a second Scottish referendum and give the SNP the momentum they need to win, so almost certainly voting to leave is also voting to break up the UK!
Surely anything Europe did to us, or us to them, could be reciprocated, which is in no one's interests? Scotland leaving the UK could be an unexpected bonus if the Out campaign wins, which it won't.
The key is that they would not want us to be the first of many to leave, if we left and were able to get a perfect deal for us on trade and movement then why would other countries not follow? Any damage turning their backs on us would be nothing compared to the flood gates opening on other countries leaving, it's in their interest to not give us a good deal! Careful what you wish for on Scotland independence, it's more then just not having to listen to those knobs from the SNP, a break up of he UK would do huge amounts of damage to our economy and status in the world!
I'd take the risk personally on Scotland. As for Europe, I think the EU works when it's countries of similar wealth and culture. We've never fitted in with the rest in terms of culture and, harsh as it may be, it's a crapper club to be in when you let the poor guys in. If a separate body comprising the wealthier European nations, some EU and some not, could be formed, it would be good to be part of it. Would never happen, of course.
You don't have local representation with PR. That's one of the biggest problems with it. The party leadership decide who gets the seat, not the voters. But for info, your MP is Richard Harrington (Conservative) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Harrington_(politician)
Yes Goldie. We have produced some great poets and writers. The thing is, who done 'nothing"? Google "Ireland role in UN missions overseas" and you will find some information that might contradict your claim that we did nothing. Among the countries where Irish troops have saved thousands of people in war torn countries are, Cyprus, The Congo, Lebanon and ironically, Bosnia and Herzegovina. To save people from killing each other in war torn districts, it is not necessary to be part of NATO. Neutral countries carry out the same role under the guidance of UN peacekeepers. By saving lives this way, everybody respects you and you don't make any enemies. Nuts might be able to give you a first hand account of what it's like.
