Off Topic Political Debate

I wish her racing manager would be as diligent with her horses - some of them might win

 

Spain is a big country ..4 hrs plus drive / over 400 km ..in addition Spanish working folk have been hit hard financially . Look below the surface and English football is in decline . Heavily indebted clubs , half empty grounds , very few English players playing / managers coaching , bad foreign ownership eg Leeds ,Cardiff and a significant percentage of "traditional " supporters priced out .
Readily admit our beloved is on a strong growth curve , due to our current excellent owners .
We are still an average championship club if you take into account our fan base and Stadium .... which needs to be bigger, because tickets available to non season ticket holders are in short supply and have generally poor views , not a good thing if you want to turn the young or newbies into regulars .

 

Yes, all very good reasons. But if you think about a similar situation in England, the picture would be very different and you would have thought that RM would have a least 100 local fans that would have turned up to watch. So if Man Utd. were playing at Bournemouth, you will see at lot more than 11 fans attending. Travelling away is just not part of the football culture in some European countries, whilst in England, many supporters prefer (myself included) away games.

 

RM following does seem surprisingly low . Perhaps in Spain more folk follow their local side . England is full of glory supporters . Kids seem to latch on to the top clubs and it sticks for life .
I guess I was lucky , my local side had a successful time in my formative years .. although first season I started going Hornets were in the 4th .
I would love to have the time and money to watch away games ... Travelling into Watford from Buckingham sometimes feels like an away game .
In addition , it is now increasingly difficult for non season ticket holders to get tickets for away games .

 

Re the culture of away support you only had to see the Blackburn v West Ham game at the weekend, looked like there were more Hammers fans there than Blackburn.

 

Travelling to away matches is a part of footballing culture in some countries, eg. the UK. Germany and the Netherlands but not so much in others. It's also good to remember that England has not always been the way it is - how many fans of Newcastle or Sunderland would you have expected for an away match in London in the 70s - very few compared to now. In those days away fans went on mass only if they were looking for trouble, or, to try to take the home end or something of that sort. In Germany the section for away fans at Cologne has 3,000 standing, and about the same sitting - normally it's sold out.

 

I'm finding this discussion interesting. I haven't been following the general debate about leaving the EU closely, so I can't really comment on it. However, even when considering something we are all interested in, football, there seems to be a lot of uncertainty about the consequences of a British exit. I assume that there are similar uncertainties about the impacts on other aspects of British life of a British exit. No doubt a lot of opinions are stated as facts but that doesn't make them correct. I wonder if people's decisions are going to be based on how they view themselves and their own sense of identity - whether they feel European or not.

 

Yes, it can be very difficult to get some away tickets, particularly where they are very local i.e. Gooners & Spuds or there are very few available i.e. Bournemouth. Myself & Little Miss W_Y are fortunate as we are A+ members and I am on a PC all day, so I can easily be ready when they go on sale. Hence my frustration at us not selling out for the Leeds game...

 

Yes, it is a fascinating debate and generally it has been carried out with respect and appreciation of others opinions and positions. For me, it's a relatively easy position as I have a very strong opinion of politicians and governments. I generally dislike most of them and I also dislike most government bodies, so for me "less is more" - I just do not see the need of yet another level of government at such a high level it is so far disconnected from the people it purports to represent. It is why I supported Scottish independence. For me a local government that governs key local activities like schools, health, social care is fine and a national government that governs key national activities like defence, foreign policy etc. is fine. Anything else is not needed. I feel English & British as nationalities, I do not see the need to feel anything else based on geography alone.
One question I continue to ask myself is how can I believe in the credibility of the European Parliament when it cannot even decide where it should be based and has to up sticks and move across 3 locations - but apparently the mere 40 Million Euros it is supposed to cost the taxpayer is nothing to worry about. Just how far can politicians get from their people?

 

I would seem that as with yesterdays letter with 36% of the top FTSE company leaders, these letters are drafted and published by Number 10 and they then ask people to support the contents. It would seem that one General was added by mistake and Number 10 has had to apologise - see Sky news.
I wonder how much credence these letters would be given if the reverse was the case and Number 10 was sending out letters supporting a Brexit?

 

Presumably the yes camp would question it whilst the other side would use it to back their case up. Incidentally, isn't Sky News owned by someone who is committed to an exit?

 

Firmly believe the exit gang will win . Especially if the Murdock empire is for out .
As a monkey ( homosapien ) and lefty , I would like to see us stay and eventually do away with all national boundaries . As an Englishman , I say let's go it alone and get rid of the taffs and jocks at the same time ...So I guess I'm split right down the middle .. I also would find it difficult to vote with either Gove or Cameron
Personally , I have absolutely no idea how I would vote , could never know enough ..pros and cons on both sides ...so I'm firmly for abstaining , tossing aside my democratic right .

 

Not sure, I did not see the name of the letter supporting staying in. Does it mean that if Sky News is not reporting it, it is not true?

 

Certainly not - was just being mischievous really as most media sources are questioned at one point or another on here.

 

You little monkey..

 

My mum gets the Telegraph.... it is an interesting read at the mo.

 

It sure is - they are as divided as we are on here!

 

I think that one thing can be put to bed now. Gove has been told he was wrong over the deal getting changed by just about everyone in Europe and the UK who has the slightest piece of legal knowledge. Even the French press who are not that happy admit it is legally binding. One word comes to mind, but it gets over used on here, so I will refrain.

 

So a "scare story" from the Leave camp - makes a change I suppose.

 

There is no need to up the ante with abuse, sarcasm etc... OH It was Cameron who started it in Parliament Well nothing new there...

I am also amazed at these people that apparently struggle to decide... could go either way... (Blond haired tubby Etonians) Who then become strong advocates of one campaign.

The reality is we make an objective decision.. evidence split either way ( BUT no evidence if we change it will improve our country financially if we change...)