I wonder if you meant this part Gordon. The money we pay to the EU and the money we get back. I could have been clearer I think. We pay about 15 billion a year in. We get part of that back and it is paid to various firms and projects. The EU decides who gets this money, not the UK. I was trying to make the point that we could pay everything that the EU gives to these firms and projects, therefore, nobody would lose out PLUS there would be £400 left over for every household in the UK, if we stopped paying the £15 billion per year into the EU and administered this sum ourselves. It was a sort of answer to those who think we get money from the EU. In reality we get a bit of our payment back to be spent as the EU decides. Hope this is clearer. If there's anything else I can try to make clearer just ask. Sorry if my earlier attempt wasn't clear.
A bit too deep for me that Washy, but I bow to your knowledge on this subject. All my point is the likes of Norway and Switzerland seem to be doing ok with the deal they have. I really don't know the full implications of the UK withdrawing from the EU, what I do know is, this little club/cartel is governed by people with so much self interest at steak they will pretty much do or say anything to keep it going. I don't want to see my country overrun with asylum seekers desperate to jump onto every benefit they can. I don't want our laws to be made in Brussels and I certainly don't want our finances decided by a group of countries that haven't been able to have the EU's own accounts audit signed off in years and years. I think we should take the risk and tell them to shove their corrupt club exactly where the sun don't shine. It strikes me the EU is on par with FIFA when it come to honesty and integrity.
This so called deal that Cameron has done, has anyone actually seen the deal in writing? I would like to see some sort of before and after presentation then make my mind up? As for stopping mass immigration, I agree that the horse has bolted, we have no dea whatsoever how many illegals are here, it's too late for that, and even if we closed our borders they would still get in , they hate our way of life but they are still queueing up to get in here.
I'll definitely be voting to leave. Take back our fishing waters Stop daily payments to the EU Have tighter control over our borders again. No doubt the 'in campaign' key player will be big business leaders coming out to scaremonger the full country by insisting if we leave Europe, every business will pack up and take their ball home and this country will fall apart. Blah blah blah
They said the same about us falling apart if we did not join the Euro currency. How did that work out? Ask the Greeks. I was living in Germany when they changed to the Euro. Everything was more expensive overnight. They rounded the prices upwards. A pint (well, 0.4 litre) that cost 5 Deutschmarks suddenly costed 3 euro (6 DM) They used the excuse that the suppliers had upped their prices but it was happening all over and with all sorts of other items.
I seemed to remember all the scaremongering that went on about the minimum wage, the Tories were saying that so many businesses would be going broke because of this......they say what they want to get what they want. If they told me today was Sunday, I would have to check the calendar. Now all this scaremongering about what would happen if we withdrew from this corrupt club. Lets take a punt, I don't believe a word of what they say about lost jobs.
Back in the 70s I voted IN for a bigger trade area. Now the EUs no longer ta Trading Union in that it wants political union. I do not want that and we have to get control of our borders and decide who comes in. For me allowing unfettered immigration from Europe is the same as if I do not have a say who comes into my house and takes food from the fridge. We can sort our own trade deals with the USA , China and India whose markets are much bigger than Europes. The project Fear that Cameroon and Labour are embarked on, take us for idiots I happen to have a BMW I cannot see that Germany will not want to sell its VWs, Audi's and BMWs here...if it does then we can flog Nissans to them. The EU stopped the Govt propping up the Steel industry in Redcar. We can use the £15bn we pay into the EU for the NHS and more arms to defend against Putin. We need NATO (i.e. the USA) to fight Russia and Interpol (sic) can organise itself, probably better if politicians and eruocrats (big salaries on our contributions) kept their news out.
The EU dictates to each member state how many asylum seekers they have to take. Asylum has been an unmitigated disaster for Europe. The French have mass problems with the Albanians & Algerians - parts of Marseilles are no-go areas. The Germans have had huge problems with the Turks. Organised crime in Glasgow is now virtually run by Somali's who think they own the ****ing city. Sweden, once a relatively crime free country now have serious problems since they started letting these animals in. People said the countries of the old Soviet Union would fall apart when it collapsed. They're all doing ok. The Soviet Union fell because the people didn't want it. It's inevitable that eventually, the same will happen to the EU.
I honestly have no idea if Europe is good or bad for me on a personal/family level. Nobody seems to break down what the differences are.
I am right behind you mate I wouldn't mind to much except we are dealing with corrupt unelected twats.
David Cameron said the other day that there would be no problem we would do well outside of the EU he just thinks it was better to stay in, and it has nothing to do with the squillions of back handers you get if you stop in.
My principal objection to membership is lack of accountability and democratic process. MEPs are puppets it seems that much of EU legislation is stitched up behind closed doors. Transparency is another concern the auditors have not signed off the accounts in a decade. Rules are made up on the hoof ala Angela Merkal and the refugees. Those wanting to remain bang on about Norway a tiny economy which is very dependant on the trade surpluses it runs with the EU whereas we are the 5th largest global economy and run a deficit with the EU so it is highly unlikely that the EU will be erecting trade barriers against the UK. The EU is a sklerotic institution in decline when compared to the other world trading blocks so would you vote to join a club such as that. As far as National security is concerned how many of the 28 countries meet their NATO spending commitments, well we do. We have nothing to fear from leaving but fear itself.
Regardless of what truth's or lies in the arguments for the -'In' or 'Out' referendum - our politically controlled news media will step up the 'Stay In' propaganda albeit in effect it's all just a smoke screen. This referendum is yet another means to make the populace believe they have a choice... there is only one constant, 'Control' -The vote will be rigged to keep us in the EU.
With that bore the Mayor of London campaigning to leave, I am voting to stay in. Absolutely loathe the Tories and everything they stand for. I think Cameron is stay in rather reluctantly, Perhaps he can see the bigger picture as the World scene has moved on since we since we joined in 1973. We could pull out of Nato and save our economy billions that is wasted on redundant weaponary.
Meanwhile in Germany... ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A fire which broke out at a building planned to house migrants in eastern Germany was greeted with cheers from some onlookers, police say. The fire in the town of Bautzen in the early hours of Sunday morning destroyed the roof of a former hotel, which was being converted into a migrant shelter. Police said some of the crowd tried to prevent firefighters from extinguishing the blaze, which destroyed the roof. The premier of Saxony, Stanislaw Tillich, described them as "criminals". Police suspect arson. The investigation includes detectives who normally deal with extremist crimes. No-one was hurt. 'Unashamed delight' Only a few days ago, protesters in another Saxon town, Clausnitz, blocked the arrival of a bus taking migrants to accommodation. They shouted, "We are the people", the slogan of the 1989 peaceful uprising which led to the fall of the Berlin Wall and the reunification of Germany. The director of the Clausnitz migrant shelter is a member of the anti-immigrant Alternativ fuer Deutschland (AfD) party. Police in Bautzen said many in the crowd watched the fire and commented with "unashamed delight". Two drunken men were arrested after they refused to leave the scene. The converted hotel was supposed to house 300 migrants. In a further sign of anti-migrant sentiment, police in the Brandenburg region are investigating the distribution of leaflets urging "absolute resistance" against "foreigner invasion". The leaflets, put through letterboxes in the town of Nauen, are the suspected work of neo-Nazis. They also give instructions on making firebombs and using explosives. On Saturday, police defended their response to events in Clausnitz after two videos surfaced online. The first video showed 100 hostile demonstrators preventing a bus from off-loading migrants into their accommodation on Thursday. A second appeared to show police roughly manhandling a boy from the bus into the building. The regional police chief said there were too few police to keep the protesters away, and three of those inside the bus had provoked the crowd. Germany received over a million asylum claims in 2015 and has been widely admired for opening its doors. But with that have come increasing reports of anti-migrant incidents amid fears of a backlash, correspondents say.
