L - its nothing like that mate! Everbody is overjoyed with the achievments of the club and wnat to make sure that the standard of achievement is maintained - nobody expects top half or europe year in year out - we all just want saftey! I agree that there have been seriously overambitious mistakes made by Prem clubs in the past that have resulted in catstrophic results, but lets be fair we are nowhere near the level of spending that the likes of Leeds etc did! There seems to be 3 sets of fans in general, Happy, Indifferent & Unhappy. I will not assume where you fit but I obviously fit in the unhappy section and i will explain my reasons why! I have spent a great deal of money over the last 12 years supporting Stoke City in the form Season Tickets, Annual Box Sunscription and general Retail. I feel that the style of football that got us promoted, is neither the type of football that will sustain us in the Prem or more importantly reflects the base line talent we have in our team. I feel that TP is responsible for the team he creates with transfers, squad development and the match day team selection and tactics. I think it is generally acknowledged that TP has had some excellent successes with the likes of Huth, Shawx, Begovic, Matty etc! I think that it is acknowledged by SOME that TP has had some horrors like Kitson, Tunny, EG etc! It is fact that TP plays players out of their natural position and dosent pick his best team! It is fact that we have spent somewhere between 50-80 million on transfers (taking into account significant losses on certain players) yet as a result of that expenditure we finished lower in the league and lost more games than our 1st season last year! It is fact that we reached the final of the FA with a draw that most prem teams would have walked through! It is fact that we were awful in the final but fantastic against Bolton! It is Fact that TP has a selection of players that he favours, even though they are well into their 30's and are of championship quality. It is fact that a 3 year plan was promoted as a vision of progress within the club both on and off the pitch! It is fact that Coates has invested heavily in new traing facilities yet we have not produced any further talent from our squad! It is fact that we will not be filling in the corners of the ground untill at least the summer of 2013 (Planning not submitted)because Coates sees this as a negative investment, both from a financial perspective and from a fan base perspective! It is my opinion that with an immediate catchment area of 250,000 residents and a further 250,000 within a 30 minute radius we would easily fill a 35-40k seater stadium if the fan base felt they were getting value for money and enjoyment! It is my opinion that TP is unable to play the game in any other format than he has played to date (even with better players) and hence the clubs transfer policy is restricted! It is my opinion that TP's stubborn and dictorial attitude is just as responsible for the wage structure as the CEO & Coates. It is fact that the club is one of the very few that are still profitable and that is credit to both the board, manager and owner! It is fact that the profits are not being directly reinvested. It is my opinion, that the club still views relegation as apotential threat and hence budgets for a championship season! It is my understanding that TP promised better football, better players and an established prem club statuts by the end of three seasons! The above point contradicts the previous point! It is fact that we still retain approx 50% of our squad from the prom year/1st prem year that are either of championship heritage or have never playhed in the prem before. It is fact that these players are struggling to be loaned out to lower league clubs and hence imbalances the 25 man squad and budget! Due to the above points, I feel that I am justified in feeling that I have been mislead by the manager and owner as to what level of football we should and could be playing (even with the existing team), and see very little progression that would equate to the money the manager has spent and the profit the club would ahve made from the performances to date! If TP had got us promoted, worked on a very small budget and said from the outset that we are out of our league I would have cheered on whatever his errors or successes were! And if we finished 4th from bottom every year then so be it and we got relegated than I would have still supported the club! However TP TOLD us all that we would be established and progess the team. As we are obviously not an establsihed team (Ground and budget ect) and our results are worse in the prem last season than our 1st season we have not completed the 3 year plan! So where has all the fans money gone, and more importantly whers my fukin money gone, becasue it aint on the pitch! I was told something very apt by a very successful business man who could by Coates over 10 times! A leader or manager must sacrifice their own ego and always surround themself with better quality personnel if they are ever to achieve their goals and dreams. You work with people who have a better skill set than yourself to achieve better results than you could yourself, than by using a lower skilled workforce. If you dont you will only achieve the norm and look like GOD in the process, if you do you will go unoticed but achieve 1st class results! The olde BIG FISH tiny little pond scenario! Oh and I detest that Happy fans run and hide and resort to TP is Sh1t when presented with facts! I at least acknowledge that TP and Coates did an excellent job getting us here and our 1st season in the prem!
Excellent post Smithers, perhaps that wiil shut L up, I somehow doubt it. Let me put you straight L in plain language; I don't do catch phrases I don't cut and paste I don't do insane ramblings, if you bother to read what I write the content is apposite to the discussion. Sorry L that means to the point I have never said "down by christmas (don't use xmas it's very lazy and a wee bit disrespectful, don't you think?) I suggest that you read my posts over the past 7 months on here and a couple of years on 66 before opening your mouth and putting both feet in, up to your ankles. It irks me somewhat that you have been on this board for 5 minutes and have a go at anybody that disagrees with you and your ilk. With EVERYBODY else on here, it's banter and nothing personal, with you I will perhaps make an exception. I HAVE supported Stoke City for 60. Years, and you???9
Its exactly like that, Stoke have been in the Premiership for three seasons now for god's sake, they should be a big cheese in this league now, we should be signing world class players and finishing in the top six every season securing regular European football. What the hell is Pulis playing at, he has no clue! I don't even know what system we play, but I know what players we should be signing and exactly how they should fit in to the team, how can the manager not see this? Why can't we play like Blackpool? what a fantastic job Holloway has done over there, playing great football and.... oh wait, they didn't stay up did they.... forget that bit. Meanwhile Stoke have stood still, all we have done is stay up for a third seasons, pathetic! Alright we got to an FA Cup Final but it was such an easy run, TP got lucky there and takes everyone's attention away from What a terrible season we had. We're going backwards because we sold Tuncay. Poor Tuncay Pulis crushed his confidence with his defensive negative tactics which forced "Tunny" to play so badly that he can't even get in to the first 11 of a German second division side. Players now don't come because of this conspiracy between TP and Coates who are tormenting us fans by not signing flair players and refusing to play attractive football because they hate the fans and want to ruin the club, It's all a sick joke! Damn Coates for not shelling out 70k+ a week for players, even if they woke up and put the money in, Coates would put ticket prices up claiming that the Club is in debt while he sits on his millions and puts nothing into the club! This three year plan is a joke, we are in to our fourth season now and what has Pulis done since keeping us up, getting us into Europe and gradually improving the squad? Absolutely nothing that's what, he hasn't even tried to sign players, that's right not one signing this season, it's a disgrace. Pulis should be breaking the bank to sign players, offer them what they want, everything will be fine as long as they sign, I mean it's not like Stoke will end up like Leeds or Pompy is it? The minute we went up we should have been trying to compete with the big boys by beating them at their own game but with a 10th of their transfer budget, just borrow it, simple! This is how it is and don't anyone dare disagree with me or ill blow a gasket, just try me... ... Seriously, some people really need to read some of their own posts on here, it's alarming!
Don't be so bloody silly and answer my question. You have neither the wit nor wisdom to be ironic. That was a little schoolboy response to Smither's excellent post, Either grow some, or grow up, or hopefully eff off
Nick Is it really 60 years! - and I thought I had suffered a long time, a mere 52 years. What a rollercoaster ride it has been eh? Good on you
Coming from a guy who blows a gasket with people who don't agree with him, refers to people in 3rd person, and then decides to write stupid poems in a pathetic attempt at a witty put down. You don't think that you are being just slightly hypocritical here?
Yea PP it's been a hell of a time that's one reason that silly little boys like L seriously piss me off, they get nasty and personal because they know no better. Hey ho, oh and by the way ****forbrains - that's you L in case you did not realise, My poems are not stupid by any manner of means the Triolets have quite a complicated rhyming scheme, not that YOU would recognise that. Anyway, this is all getting quite tedious and boring, if you want to kick off a war of words, forget it sonny, you have neither the wit, vocabulary or literacy to compete. I really don't want this to bore other people, your call though, I suggest you send me a PM and we can sort it out off-line - how does that sound to you??
This is my point L! I have tried to give my honest opinion without slating and attacking! I have praised areas that I think TP, Coates and the club have excelled in but pointed blatant areas of contridiction! Blackpool is a poor excuse given that our 1st year prem salaries were triple that of Blackpools were and they had a capacity of only 20k with the total expenditure on players of about 5 million - ours was near on 20 million!! No one is saying that we should play in the fashion of Blackpool and Hull, we dont have the players for a start, but signing or looking to sign players that enhance the standard within the team is just common sence! You make some solid points and things that people will acknowledge when delivered in the correct manner, but I have had to listen to the total tripe of how we would rewrite all our previous achievements last year in the prem for us to finish on lower points with a standard of play that was near on relegation form! When you respond with blatant black and white facts 'some people' go all pissy and wont just say "OK the form aint great and we need to move forward etc etc"! I have no issue with finishing bottom, if the clubs finances and capabailities dictate it and I would support wholeheartedly. But (and you know this in your heart of hearts) we are better than our performances and I wouldnt care if we didnt sign another player and not waste more money on sh1te! I would love a couple of decent FOOTBALLERS in our team but if not, I would just love TP to play the game the way it should be and make me, Nik etc eat our words - wouldnt that be great! When we play well and deliver what we can and should, I am on hear (606) eating my words and applauding TP, Coates and the players I feel shouldnt be in the squad, but people like yourself will swear black is white when it is obviously not! Debate is taking on board what people say, and acknowledging other posters valid points and also having yours acknowledged - not acting like a spoilt teenager! Your passion is admirable (if only some of Tone's players could show the same) and there must be some substance to your arguement amongst all the carp. So for all of us on here, please explain constructively what evidence there is to support that we have moved forward and not stood still so we can discuss in a civil manner. You never know, Nik may even become a TP fan after all?
Mr Smithers, My parody of the "mad fan rant" was put out to try and make some people realise how absurd they actually sound when they go completely over the top before a ball is even kicked. I'll try not to be too long winded as I could be typing for some time and I'm sure that you prefer a straight reply rather than a novel. I suppose it's what you ultimately expect from the club it'self. The "three year plan" as I saw it was to first and foremost stay in the league while trying to build a squad capable of avoiding relegation relatively comfortably, which in all fairness has been achieved. The point where TP says "now we have stayed up for three seasons, it's time to kick on" is now, which hasn't started yet so it's tough to comment on at the moment. In regards to last season, I feel (in my opinion of course) that's it's fairly harsh to suggest that the club has gone backwards, okay we finished 14th in the league, but I would hardly call that a failure when you take into account that we finished was it 11th last time? So we slipped three places, the club is not going to beat it's league position every season especially in a super competitive league like the Premiership it takes time to build your way up the pecking order. Please don't forget that we have only been there for three seasons, where as the likes of Blackburn, Bolton and Wigan (very lucky to stay up this time) have been there for a hell of a lot longer, on the other end of the scale there's Wolves that survived by the skin of their teeth in the last two terms, only because Pompy and West Ham were so horrifically bad, if it wasn't for flop teams they would have definitely gone down, West Brom before last season were a yo yo club, Blackpool, Hull etc. I think that we are the only team that's been promoted and stayed up comfortably without spending obscene amounts of money, especially when no one gave us a chance in hell, quite a feat.... My biggest worries are injures, especially to any other wingers as we can't replace either of them and when we have no width we do resort to long ball, why? Well we don't have a choice, the squad is very much a work in progress and it is frustrating I will admit. It's like buying a jigsaw puzzle in stages and only being allowed to try the pieces you have until you can afford to buy the rest. Obviously this means "square pegs in round holes" and having to play ugly depending on each players ability in the squad. Stoke remind me of Blackburn under Hughes sometimes as they had Pederson and Bentley on the wings and used to just basically punt the ball up to Bellamy and later Santa Cruz. I also remember Wenger calling them a rugby team at some point. We all know what we need but due to the club's finances it's only going to happen on their terms, so eventually or not at all, It's a vicious circle in many ways as to what the club do? Breaking the wage cap is one way, but how long is it before you have a senario of "one on 70k a week, all on 70k a week", before you know it, all the club's revenue is sucked up by player wages, then the chairman has to foot the bill until he can't afford it, ticket prices go up (like at QPR) or even worse borrow the money. Living within your means, being patient and bargain hunting has paid off so far, but also takes time. This is why I get irked by fans slagging off the club, okay it's not perfect but it's plain to see what's going on here, the club is working towards being self sufficient so that when these new guide lines come in the club will still only be spending what It earns. If we break the wage cap, then next season Stoke will be in a real mess. To my knowledge everyone else is in debt (Bolton £90M) so it's going to be interesting to see what happens. In the mean time, Pulis isn't going anywhere soon, and the Club isn't going to risk it's future trying to get into the top six, keeping our heads above water and slowly building (yes I know it's frustrating) has been the plan and I don't think it's going to change. Hopefully TP can bring in a few signings as "FACT" we do need some fresh faces, but other clubs around us haven't made massive strides in the transfer market either. Hand on heart I think Stoke will get a Striker and a holding midfielder in before the transfer shuts, Delap is 34 and can't play every game, so maybe Wilson will step in and we end up buying a fullback? Until then I have faith in the current first eleven to get a result against Split, I just think Split have been hyped up way too much and the combo of Etherington, Pennant Jones might be too much for them.
I understand the frustrations. I can see both sides of the argument but I will wait until the end of the transfer window and if we haven't brought better players in I will moan there and then, whether it be about our target's demands, Pulis, Scholes or whatever. I am prepared to wait and give Pulis a chance to see if he will bring in some better players.
Excellent comments L and I must agree with pretty much all of it! So it comes down to opinion. I agree that our overall position in the league is generally no worse, but it is certainly no better and not to the tune of the best part of 80 million spent. That money I feel could have been spent more cost effectively and belive some of the flops would never had happened with better man management, ie working with you players and not dictating to them! I would add, that your comparison with Blackburn is acurate, however, I would view the players in that team as far better calibre than team we have currently, and Sparky spent a pitance getting it together! I agree with the Delap statment but I would bet your house that regardless of the players bought or loaned this summer, subject to injury and/or suspension, he will play 90% of the prem games and that is where TP falls flat! All your points are well thought, accurate and correct, but are thrown out the window when he plays Delap over a fit winger, and the best passing midfileder we have (who owes us the best part of 10 million with the players + cash deal) at left back and one of the best CB in the league at RB! That is the issue and something that he has has 3 seasons to rectify but has refused to do so! I will also admit, that my views are biased! In out promo year and 1st prem year I was Pulis love child and in my view he deserved every positive comment bestowed upon the club. However, the last 2 seasons I have had the priviledge of sitting 5 rows back and 10 seats in from the home dug out and can hear every negative moaning word he shouts and bellows at the players - further compounded by his deep love for the privilidged few and his utter confusion when things dont go to plan! And for that reason alone I have lost respect for the man! However, you can only judge on results and last years are now done and this years will be the new marker! The 1st 7 prem games will paint the picture and lets hope that the inns and outs along with the results give us something to cheer about!
Fair comments Smithers, From a tactical viewpoint and the way the team is set out by Pulis, there is logic there, even if it doesn't always work. I'm not saying that I agree or think it's the right thing to do it's just from what I see watching the games. Here's thing thing about the midfield, Delap is defensively sound, his distribution is awful we all know that, but if we sign another midfielder it has to be better than what we have already, for example someone with the defensive ability of Delap but also good distribution. The defensive side is more important due to the system Pulis plays, when the wingers and strikers bomb forward you need your two in the middle. Unfortunately players like that don't come cheap so this falls under the transfer thing again, hopefully Wilson can do well there this season as playing at fullback last season definitely improved the defensive side of his game and he can definitely pass a ball. Delap on the right instead of fit wingers, purely defence, especially away from home, we all know that TP likes to keep it super tight and see if we can nick a goal late on, Rory just ads an extra layer of defence on the right hand side. Huth at right back, I honestly don't think that he trusted anyone else there at the time, especially playing against Chelsea, Wilco was being pulled around like crazy in that game. Wilco has gotten better defensively though. Although Hughes at Blackburn was a while ago now and transfers/wages were probably not as steep as today, I agree that it was a better side than what we have, and on a limited budget (I still can't believe he signed Santa Cruz for £4.5M?). Sparky set that team up in almost exactly the same way as us and of course better players make for a much more efficient system. It is frustrating watching Stoke trying to break far too quickly resulting in rushed passes often seeing the ball caught under Jones feet and then cleared away...
Sorry Nicky, but you can't have a go at someone for getting "nasty and personal", then call them ****forbrains and challenge them to a fight. It swings both ways, mate.
Both L and Smithers make excellent points (as usual). I've said before and I'll say it again, I'm not going to judge our performance in this window til September 1st. So far it's been a let-down, but summer transfer windows always are with Pulis until August time. Our signings in both this window and in January will signal what Pulis' intentions are for Stoke, and will certainly offer an insight into how he sees our style of play developing and to how ambitious he is. I personally think that mid-table finishes and the odd Cup run nare the best a club like us can hope for in the short-medium term, but simply aiming to stand still would be rather runwise and I'd hope coates and pulis have loftier ambitions for the club than I do.
Jose - was not angling for a fight with L, just settle our differences offline. Jeez I'm 66 and rely on a walking stick, skin and rice pudding come to mind!! Yup you are quite correct - I should not name call, it's just that I get wounded when someone calls my poetry stupid! By the way - excellent debate twixt Smithers and L Have a good day
Just seen that were looking at Lucas from Liverpool, not seen much of him, but he always seems to be in the team, so he can't be too bad. . .
We were linked with him last year and he is a busy little midfielder, plus he is slightly more froward thinking than alot of the other players we have been linked with! Wouldnt be my first choice but an improvment on what we have!
Nigel Reo-Coker has signed for Bolton on a free. Bloody hell. If Bolton could afford him, and they're supposed to be skint, then we certainly could. Really disappointed we weren't in for him. Makes no sense as Pulis is a known fan of Reo-Coker.
