Off Topic Political Debate

Pretty much spot on ofh. If the UK leaves the EU, the US will cut the strings to the puppet.

As a country we seem to be so arrogant as to believe that the UK is in some way the equivalent of the USA - probably because of our cultural ties. Having worked all my career (such as it was) for American companies, they see our relationship with Europe as similar to their individual states to the US as a whole.

Make no mistake, if the UK leaves the EU, American companies will leave the UK in droves and relocate in Germany/Scandinavia or any other EU country that makes an effort to speak English! There will be no sympathy from them - nor indeed from Japan, China and India, still less from the Commonwealth countries whom we left in the lurch in the 70s. When we go cap in hand to the EU to set up a "free trade" agreement with them, the collective finger will go up and we will be bound by the same trading conditions (and therefore so-called "red tape" and expense) as we are as a member - without any power to influence the EU's decisions.

As an aside, the EU has as many bureaucrats as Birmingham City Council - around 50,000 - to administer a community of (what is it now) 400 million?.

 

It is already happening Vic. My son-in- law works for an American company that was based in England, but has now left the UK for Belgium. As a very well qualified consultant they made it possible for him to transfer to Brussels. Why now though? Simply because of the uncertainty that exists in the UK. They feel that the European model is more stable and likely to continue, but they don't know what will happen in the UK. The idea of new trade agreements with the EU is pure speculation, whereas they prefer to deal with a system that is set to continue.

 

These sound like the scare tactics used by the leave campaign in the Scottish referendum. American companies will not leave in droves, those with big operations will have to have a presence here as they do in every country they have a business Do you think Microsoft will drop their huge R&D centre in Cambridge or Google their new building in London? As is seen in the tax avoidance discussion US companies move around all the time to take advantages of favourable tax regimes.
EU bureaucrats do not administer a community in the same way as Birmingham City Council - they do not care for the elderly, they do not protect children etc etc. - they frame laws, directives and rules and try and enforce them. If Birmingham City Council had 10% of the budget the EU has, they would be very happy bunnies.
It would be nice for someone to actually state a benefit of being in the EU instead of a list of negatives that might happen.

 

The Uk has attracted more inward investment than the rest of the EU because of sensible corporation tax levels, flexible employment and growth. These are the same reasons why they reject the alternatives on mainland Europe. Maurice Taylor, boss of Titan International, declined the chance of an offer to buy a failed tyre factory in France stating 'How stupid do you think we are" The boss of John Lewis described France as 'finished' 'in decline' and advised investors to take their money out of the country.

If we leave the EU trade will still go on, the English will still buy houses and live in France as the Americans, Australians and many other non EU ex pats do.

 

I think you are right SH about why the UK has attracted the investment and you would certainly give yourself a headache if you tried to run a company here. But you have to ask how much of that inward investment has come because the UK supplies the platform into the huge market of the EU. If you were planning to start up a new business you would go to the Hypemarket, not the corner store to create a decent sized investment. Just how much of the investment will still come if the UK is outside the EU? As Farage said the UK will probably lose some of it's prosperity and some of it's jobs, but that does not matter as he will be able to draw his EU pension early.

 

A little unfair on Farage, I genuinely think he has the UK's interest at heart.

I do think if the UK leaves the EU it is in the interest of the technocrats to try to make it as difficult as possible for us, they will not want to encourage contagion. We all have to remember that the Euro countries are rushing towards political and fiscal union which is bound to use all means to help itself at the expense of the non Euro countries.

The present financial success of the UK, compared to the failing Euro countries, has created unsustainable migration, Cameron's weak rule changes will not seriously reduce this attraction.

Although migration probably adds to our growth these people will be dependants later in life, I tend to agree with Farage, maybe a little less growth now will be worth it in the long run.

 

You must be living in cloud cuckoo land SH. Compare migration to the UK. with that of your so called 'failing' EU. economies such as Germany and France (and the latter still produces more than the UK. despite its problems) how many foreigners live in Germany / how many refugees live in Germany ? You seem to imply that the whole world wants to move to the UK. which just isn't the case - Germany has nearly 4 times as many migrants from Eastern europe as the UK. does yet doesn't whinge about it in the same way - 40% of all Poles living and working outside of Poland do so in Germany. You also conveniently forget, like Farage, that most immigration to the UK. does not come from the EU - withdrawal from the EU. would not make immigration disappear - in fact it would prevent Britain from being able to police its borders in Calaise or in Brussels, which, in turn, would lead to more refugees arriving on British soil.

 

You must be living in cloud cuckoo land SH. Compare migration to the UK. with that of your so called 'failing' EU. economies such as Germany and France (and the latter still produces more than the UK. despite its problems) how many foreigners live in Germany / how many refugees live in Germany ? You seem to imply that the whole world wants to move to the UK. which just isn't the case - Germany has nearly 4 times as many migrants from Eastern europe as the UK. does yet doesn't whinge about it in the same way - 40% of all Poles living and working outside of Poland do so in Germany. You also conveniently forget, like Farage, that most immigration to the UK. does not come from the EU - withdrawal from the EU. would not make immigration disappear - in fact it would prevent Britain from being able to police its borders in Calaise or in Brussels, which, in turn, would lead to more refugees arriving on British soil.

 

But it's not such a clean cut case that companies set up in the UK as a platform for the remainder of the EU, maybe a few small start up companies, but they come and go all the time - but you were describing large US corporations and they are already here. I work for a VERY large US corporation with a operating company in every country in Europe, with annual turn-over of over $1 billion in the UK alone, do you think they are going anywhere?
The other myth being peddled is that some of the European banks will close their doors and return to their home countries, again why would they? For example, Deutsche Bank, it has a large presence in London because of the City of London. This is not a retail bank and it really does not address the "Mom & Pop Shop" market either - the reason they are in London is because the have a large corporate customer base in London and needs to be close to them - will they risk a competitor sniffing around by moving back to Frankfurt?

 

Germany takes more migrants because it selfishly needs the manpower. The UK should be able to decide on migrants from both the EU and non EU on the basis of proven need. The french and the rest of the countries in The Schengen region have failed in their duty to follow their own rules. Most of these countries within the border free zone have now acknowledged the abysmal failure of security by erecting their own barriers even more severe than pre Schengen days.

Any non qualifying refugees arriving on British soil should be returned immediately to the country of embarkation.

 

HSBC has decided to stay in the UK even after the recent tax raid on banks. They know the expertise and good trading conditions will always remain in London.

 

Germany has more migration because it has 10 land borders and because of its geographical position - traditionally its migrants also tend to come from neighbouring countries. All of that is different for the UK. You seem to forget that the UK. can already police its own borders and can already decide upon which basis it will accept immigration in about 65% of cases (ie. all of the non EU. cases) - this has nothing to do with the EU. whatsoever. What worries me is that all of the hype around immigration in the UK. is blending EU. membership/ immigration/ and refugees all into one theme, which is not valid. Unfortunately if people actually believe the propaganda going around then they end up believing that the numbers of Rumanians, Poles etc. is 10 times higher than it really is - and that the 3,000, or so, souls waiting in Calais (about the population of Porlock) has become a hord equal to that of Gengis Khan.

 

The UK cannot police its own borders due to the EU policy of freedom of movement. We should have the right to refuse all migrants that do not conform to standards controlled by the UK's own parliament. Failures of continental countries in controlling mass immigration is their problem to sort out.

It was certainly unhelpful for the out of touch hapless Merkel to proclaim 'everybody welcome'. The idiotic technocrats that devised the Schengen Agreement should have checked their exterior borders were safe before exposing the whole continent to murderous terrorists. I dread to think of the next ISIS atrocity in Europe which is most likely.

 

There are 2 million EU citizens working in the UK...I think you are way out of touch with what is happening in this country. You also forget that people still remember when Blair and Blunkett blatantly lied to the British people about the numbers of Polish immigrants.

 

I would have thought countries like France and Germany would have liked the ability to exclude undesirable swivel eyed cretins from Luton if they so wished!!

 

I think you are way out of touch with what is happening in the rest of Europe if you think that 2 million people constitutes unsustainable immigration - it is after all only about one in 30 of the population. For reference here are some figures from Germany:
From Poland 1,543,000
Italy 830,000
Rumania 489,000
Greece 403,000
Other EU. Countries 2,362,000

Total from EU = 5,627,000

Other European = 3,928,000 (Primarily ex Yugoslavia, Albania)
Russian = 1,213,000

Don't forget W_Y that there are also about 2 million Britons living in the EU.

 

Some would call it tit-for-tat invasion......

 

The truth, and it might be inconvenient for some, is that the vast majority of people who move from one EU country to another do so in order to work. They don’t do it in order to claim benefits. The EU has asked the UK for several years to provide evidence of systematic or widespread benefit tourism, but none has been provided. Downing Street commissioned a report on the effects of migration into the country, but shelved it when it failed to find evidence to support the case for tighter restrictions on immigrants.

 

The UK's government and the majority of people opposed to mass immigration would declare the main opposition is the sheer uncontrolled numbers not the 'benefit' issues. This is just the one area that Cameron had a chance of changing. Most people are not fooled by the ongoing pantomime currently being played out, the present demands have been watered down so much as to be irrelevant.

 

So why did the report commissioned by Cameron fail to find the evidence for tighter restrictions?