Off Topic Political Debate

That's better, we don't want people driving old bangers associated with the new WFC millionaire image.

 

Seems a rather narrow lens to compare - what about adding citizens from Poland, Portugal, Romania & Bulgaria to those figures? I think the numbers would even out a little. But the whole debate in this area has not been on unemployment benefit, it's been regarding "in work" benefits...I cannot see countries like Poland and Romania ever agreeing to a reduction in those for their citizens living in the UK, it props up their own economy.

 

To obtain any of these benefits you have to prove that you have a right to habitual residence. The law changed to that effect in May 2014 with the introduction of universal credit. To qualify you have to fall into one of the following groups.

• are working or self-employed
• are jobseeking
• are a former worker
• are self-sufficient
• are a student
• have been living in the UK for at least five years and have acquired a permanent right to reside
• are the primary carer of a child who themselves has the right to reside
• are the family member of someone with the right to reside.

So are we saying that people who are providing services in lowly paid employment should be treated differently if they are Dutch, German, Polish, Bulgarian or British? If we are going to have different rules for different nationalities we stand to be labelled as extreme, whereas I have always believed Brits to be a very tolerant nation.

 

Cameron's current negotiations are designed to give him a 'Chamberlain' moment to con the British public into believing meaningful reform has been achieved. Of course, the outcome will be nothing of the sort. His 'demands' have been completely watered down so in effect very little will have changed, even if they can be prevented from being diluted further by the European parliament.

The very least he should have demanded was for the UK to have sovereignty over EU directives, sensible control over immigration, and most importantly full protection against the effects of ever closer political and fiscal union amongst the German dominated Euro group.

Unfortunately many of the 'stay in at any cost' do not live in some of the areas of the UK that have changed dramatically for the worse due to uncontrolled immigration.

 

In what way have they changed dramatically for the worse?

 

Whilst driving through the Cotswolds recently, due to uncontrolled chattering class immigration and second and holiday home proliferation, many villages now only come to life during the weekend and are then choked with BMWs, Mercedes, Jags etc. Locals now confined to shoddily built estates on the edges of once thriving towns. Antique shops and tea-rooms have replaced most shops in the high streets with so-called "Gastro-pubs" at every corner.

This area of the UK has been totally and dramatically changed for the worse, I would suggest.

 

Pressure on housing stocks, school places, medical services, etc etc.

 

I lived in Northleach for two years, wonderful place to live although I just prefer another excellent location, The New Forest. The only problem is the lack of immigrants to clean one's cars.

 

That is what Cameron is trying to negotiate to add another rule that any EU citizen would have to have been working here for 4 years before they can claim in-work benefits. I do not agree with it and it is totally unworkable and for me the issue is far wider. It seems that the politicians would have us debate this rather narrow topic rather than the underlying issues i.e. low pay that is being subsidised by the state and thus the taxpayer. If we got back control of our borders, we can control this -so if we need skilled care workers or nurses we provide a work permit and provide benefits that match the contribution of that person to society. But if Costa or Subway or Dominoes want to bring in cheap labour to open yet another store, then they can do so but they will need to fund them with no state support. Our country has been dumbed down by these corporates for too long - just how many coffee shops do we need in our high streets?

 

Good god man, just where will the chattering classes go for their Venti with Chai "flavored with grape, chai, orange and cinnamon", not to mention the 25 teaspoons worth of sugar. Plus half the Cotswolds towns would go out of business if coffee shops are restricted in any way.

 

Seems like a plan to me Vic...let's take back the high street!

 

This is where it all went wrong when Blair and Brown invented all the things you could claim for. People who could live quite well and were not poorly paid suddenly found they could claim money off the state. How to get away from it is the real question. If you raise the minimum wage enough without raising the benefits it will eventually work it's way through, but there will be plenty of protest along the way. This is within the power of the UK government and they do not need EU approval.

 

I think a good start OFH is to introduce the Living Wage and to increase it each year and then start to remove some of these "credits". It is not the role of the state to underpin poverty wages so that a business is "viable". If Costa cannot get by without paying a proper Living Wage, then I would be more than happy to see them close. Same for the poor farmers using slave labour, if they cannot grow and pick their Strawberries without resorting to slave labour, then they need to stop growing them - if it means it costs me more and I only can buy strawberries twice a year, so be it!

 

Hasn't really affected me or my family to be honest.

 

Blimey Dan, where are you living? Cannot see anywhere in London & the SE that does not have housing issues..

 

Brent. I couldn't afford a house in London before enlargement so no change there!

 

As far as I'm aware, not an option if you live here - under Jersey voting rules, we can't vote in Jersey and UK ballots because of being a BCD. Although, I think it's different for the donkeys because they don't have a Parliamentary mace for helping Charles II when he was in hiding.

 

I have spent some time reading some of the comments from French people who had viewed articles about the Brexit discussions. As you might expect the views expressed were as different as you might hear in an English pub discussion with plenty of complaints about the EU which nearly all agreed did need reform.

"Britain should get out and the French with them before Germany can take over completely" was frequently said. "Let the UK go and take the border back from Calais into England where it belongs." " Hollande should realise that France is broke and should stop trying to make a fuss to divert his own short comings". " The UK is a puppet of the US that uses it as a toe into Europe." " If we lose our trade with the UK how will that help our failing economy," "Every twenty years they come back and ask for more." "It needed a country to ask the questions about the EU as France is to weak to do it."

There were hundreds more expressing every shade of opinion, but rather than not asking for enough as some politicians in the UK are saying, the general feeling was that they are asking for too much.

 

If you have lived in the UK in the last 15 years you can get a vote. More than 15 years and you cannot.

 

Check that out Barry - I think they may have changed it for this one. Apologies if I am wrong!