Off Topic Political Debate

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Interesting result.... must say it completely passed me by...

 

Certainly missed that Yorkie - what type of vote was it for?

 

aha..... just checked it out..... local council election for one Councillor!!

 

A lot of people missed it W_Y. If Corbyn's Labour had done badly then we would never have heard the last of it. Despite all of the crap and misquotes coming from the media Corbyn is doing well in elections so far - this was the by election for a Coventry constituency. Had Labour done badly it would have been seized upon as 'evidence' that Corbyns' policies are disastrous for Labour - as it is ? Are the electorate waking up at last ?

Sorry - just checked up and I am not sure what type of election it was.

 

I would not get too excited cologne. Less than 15% turnout which shows absolutely nothing.

 

I'm not getting too excited Frenchie. Just pointing out that more would have been made of the result if it had gone the other way.

 

Looks like New New Labour took some votes back from UKIP, would have been interesting to see the result from the previous by-election. But with a 15% turn-out as reported by OFH, I wonder what can be really drawn from it.
What we need is a by-election for a MP in a marginal seat to see if Comrade Corbyn can rally enough troops to make a meaningful swing.

 

The only thing you can draw from a turnout of 15% is apathy against all parties, which, in itself, is a problem. I'm pleased with the result but I also recognize that when the turnout gets so low then anything is possible as a result. People died for voting rights in the past - in fact 40% of those who died (on our side) at the Somme didn't have them, including my grandfather. So to see this right taken so lightly by so many is very sad..........should voting be made compulsory ?

 

I don't believe that voting should be made compulsory. People should be allowed choice over how they want to live, support which political party they choose, or none, and believe what they wish. For political parties to tell people what they should do smacks of old style communist regimes, something I do not ever want to see in the UK. I agree that it is very sad when people don't feel engaged with their councils, but if you look at the make up of Coventry Council, going out to vote would not have made the slightest difference to the policies they follow.

 

If soldiers died for the right to vote did they not also die for the right to not vote.?I certainly don't think they died for the right of Governments to fine people (or worse) for not voting

 

Comrade Corbyn desperately needs all the goods news highlighted, however trivial. Us Tories don't want him being replaced with a proper politician.

 

Frenchie, compulsory voting is not limited to former communist countries but is practiced in Australia, Belgium and Luxembourg. The theory is that it can politicize a population - because if you have to vote then you will take the trouble to find out about what is going on. A turnout which is, at best 70% for general elections, and hovers around 40% for European or local elections can only produce governments which have no real mandate - particularly if using a first past the post system. The situation is always the same in the UK. the majority always either voted against the government of the day, or were passive in relation to all politics, and that cannot produce good government.

 

I am glad you said the theory is.... If you look at the actual figures for people of voting age in those three countries you will find that of those who could vote, 78%, 87% and 55% did cast their vote with 6%, 6% and 7% choosing to spoil their votes. These figures are for parliamentary elections where the turnout at the last UK election was 60% and the German one 66%.
So the figures for national elections are far higher than local ones. Having served on a local council for too many years, I could list for you what does get people involved and what doesn't. Far too often you will get the response that you are better able to understand what is going on with an issue, and they will leave it to your judgement. You have been elected, now get on with it seems to be the attitude.

 

Steady OFH, don't let facts and real world scenarios get in the way. I suppose the next imposition that is needed is to force the electorate to join a political party.

 

I am not forcing people to either vote or to join parties, I am simply posing questions. The one thing that I cannot accept however is a population which is so depoliticized that it borders on inertia. It is a question of acceptance of responsibility - you are partially responsible for everything which your government does, and it is the acceptance of that which is important. Who, for example, is responsible if your government invades another country ? Is it the politicians who ordered it, the soldiers and their officers who actually did it, the people who made the weapons, the people who voted for the government, the people who pay their taxes to make the weapons, the teachers and parents who have brought children up into such a system without questioning, is it the non voters who could have voted the government out but didn't, exactly who is responsible ? I would say everyone who does not actively oppose.

 

Had dinner with old friends last night.... he is a labour councillor ( ex-vicar version).... and quite upbeat about a potential swing against the Tories as people realise more and more what they are doing... libraries, youth centres, children centres, day centres, care of the elderly, local services all badly hit.... plus the NHS situation and Hunt's publicized privatisation ideas...

Mind you we had a good discussion about local politics, our local councillor is the best I have known and he is a Tory, and there are several labour councillors here who do sweet FA for the community. So this Left/Right stsereotype , fuelled by the media and ourselves needs to be handled with care....

I agree that if we want to make a difference we have to stand up and be counted..... democracy based on a once every few years vote is not so good really.....

Surely we all agree on basic standards for all. This is really not about the notion of Austerity but about how we choose to spend our resources....

 

Hopefully you told your old friend that it is easy to whinge from the sidelines. Thankfully we now have a responsible government which is attempting the almost impossible task of making sure the country lives within its means. The UK's so called 'austerity' has been nothing of the sorts, Ireland has experienced a real tightening of the belt and has emerged stronger for it.

The 'must have' culture, with both the national and personal finances has led to debt mountains which our parents would have been ashamed of.

 

Very dangerous ground there. Sounds like you're agreeing with Al Qaeda! I try to vote every time and definitely vote if it looks like a party contrary to my belief is likely to seize power. Sometimes a no vote is in fact a vote for the status quo at least in my experience.

 

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I guess we could start with
deficit reduction Osborne Out
NHS not meeting totally daft targets Hunt out
Failure of Immigration targets May out

 

EU is a failure - Out

Yeah, I like this Yorkie